Abrahamic religions are the foundation of human morality

[appealgod123]

culture is in fact not subjective if a set of standards and values and education is what define a culture then its not what subjective at all
beside before islam im pretty sure the quraish ppl belived in other deitys therefore they had acess to previus "objective morality" that they full heartedly belived was right

Well you think people back then had standards ir values?? No, they were tribesmen


They were pagan and worshipped many “gods” but i dont understand what your main point is here

 

[dontcallthemfoidsbro]

Ion know abt this one mane

 

[Caterpillar]

Well you think people back then had standards ir values?? No, they were tribesmen


They were pagan and worshipped many “gods” but i dont understand what your main point is here

my point is morality is subjective and yes tribesmen did have their own moral values they prob werent as empathic as the one islam set after them

 

[True_Fakecell]

what abt the inheritance rights a women is entitled to 1/2 a mans inheritance a wife is only entiteled to 1/8 of the inheritance if there are children but a man is 1/4

I think it's also about what is expected financially of man compared to a woman and that the wife is covered financially with dowry/mehr

 

[M1A2 Abrams]

@appealgod123
You are genuinely an iqlet if you think abrahamic religions are the foundation of human morality

@Caterpillar
While morality and culture can be subjective, there are basics that will never change no matter the circumstance. All humans are evolutionarily hardwired to have certain altruistic and pack behaviors that allow for social cooperation which is the basis of human civilization.

Abrahamic religions are just projections of pre-existing human morals that got more popular than other religions. Read my other comment if you want elaboration


You guys are arguing about the most minute of things. The specifics don't matter, all religions and morals have slight differentiators. People can have vastly different morals, but as you add more people to the dataset, their beliefs will average out and you will end up with a variety of founding belief found in most humans

 

[Caterpillar]

@Caterpillar
While morality and culture can be subjective, there are basics that will never change no matter the circumstance. All humans are evolutionarily hardwired to have certain altruistic and pack behaviors that allow for social cooperation which is the basis of human civilization.

Abrahamic religions are just projections of pre-existing human morals that got more popular than other religions. Read my other comment if you want elaboration

i agree with you on everything except that culture can be subjective its just a set of educations teaching unique traditional dresses which all are objective and these are the thing that define a culture

 

[chudlite67]

And the reason society is lost is because people are drifting away from abrahmic religions

religion cope tho

 

[M1A2 Abrams]

i agree with you on everything except that culture can be subjective its just a set of educations teaching unique traditional dresses which all are objective and these are the thing that define a culture

That's surface level.
Culture is not just unique traditional dresses, it also impacts their core values, ways they percieve the world (with language), patterns of thought, personal space, temperament, etc.
Culture is like an iceberg, at the tip there are identifiable and categorizable traits like dress and food but as you get deeper, the traits are more fundamental; such traits are formed in early childhood and cannot be altered. (They technically can but it is extremely difficult)

 

[Caterpillar]

That's surface level.
Culture is not just unique traditional dresses, it also impacts their core values, ways they percieve the world (with language), patterns of thought, personal space, temperament, etc.
Culture is like an iceberg, at the tip there are identifiable and categorizable traits like dress and food but as you get deeper, the traits are more fundamental; such traits are formed in early childhood and cannot be altered. (They can technically but it is extremely difficult)

i guess thats nice to know

 

[appealgod123]

Abrahamic religions and all religions are cope.

It's baffling how people can reject all facts and logic that has been presented to them in favor of a old tribal tale that grew into a larger organization. Before you come for me saying "I don't know anything," I've read the bible 4x and the new testament 6x. While I haven't yet touched the quran I think I understand its basic premise.

Okay nothing to say here…. Didnt read the quran but alright

.

From here on we will define "normal" as people without mental disorders that inhibit their judgement and empathetic abilities

Being ND is natural for us a species, so because i have adhd im not “normal”

Then no one is really “normal” by your definiton when you say “inhibit their judgement and empathetic abilities” it isnt black and white

And if i use your logic, then some severe depression can inhibit empathy and decision making, why do we classify them as normal and others as abnormal??

Morals have not come from abrahamic religions but rather, basic human morals that were always imbedded in most normal minded people were made present in those texts. There are always some basic "morals" in normal people that allow them to be altruistic and function in society with others of their kind. The "golden rule" to not do unto others what you do not want onto oneself is found in across different cultures and religions that are not abrahamic, which points to the fact that human morals are generated by humans themselves and are not from the abrahamic religions.

They were always there huh?? Okay so lets bring up ancient sparta murdered weak and disabled babies

Roman empire slaughtered people in the cosseum,

Or arabia before islam, where they used to bury little girls to death

But hey they are the ones that built morality right??

Also when you said they built morals for themselves to function as a society, you can condemn extremism and opression?? Because it has happened before?

Now I’ll move onto the golden rule

The golden rule only applied within the tribe itself almost always, no one really followed it, or else slaves wouldnt have existed

You are differing between “generating” and “discovering”, they discovered the golden rule, not generated it, because its part of reality

also us muslims believe in fitrah, you can search and learn about it

 

[appealgod123]

religion cope tho

No lmao

 

[appealgod123]

You say the world has become less moral as abrahamic religions decline but I would say they have little to no connection, and if they do, it is a negative correlation.

There is correlation, so back in the islamic golden age everyone was practicing islam

Which then lead to one of the greatest empires (ummayad empire) which was the most civilized in probably all of history, was following the shaira law perfectly

Look at the arab world now, see the difference

 

[appealgod123]

Ion know abt this one mane

Its true lmao

 

[True_Fakecell]

There is correlation, so back in the islamic golden age everyone was practicing islam

Which then lead to one of the greatest empires (ummayad empire) which was the most civilized in probably all of history, was following the shaira law perfectly

Look at the arab world now, see the difference

Bring back the khalifa

 

[appealgod123]

Bring back the khalifa

Only if the abbasaids never backstabbed us

We wouldve been the greatest civilization rn

After that everything went downhill with the mongols and fall of baghdad

 

[True_Fakecell]

Only if the abbasaids never backstabbed us

We wouldve been the greatest civilization rn

After that everything went downhill with the mongols and fall of baghdad

We still have hope, we were promised constatinople and rome, we have and we missing one. And end times are soon anyway

 

[appealgod123]

We still have hope, we were promised constatinople and rome, we have and we missing one. And end times are soon anyway

I dont think we’ll ever live to see it

Saudi gov are traitors to us muslims, and the levant is weak now

Idk bro tbh

 

[M1A2 Abrams]

Being ND is natural for us a species, so because i have adhd im not “normal”

I'm also ND. If you had read what I said, you would know that there are variations. As you said, a spectrum. Everyone will have differing views from each other but if you average all beliefs together then you will see overlapping themes.

For the severe depression statement, yes, they aren't acting normal as that is a mental illness, but that doesn't make them less human. I did care less about others when I was severely depressed, but when we humans are at a baseline mental state, there will always be an average. By extremes on the spectrum I mean psychopaths and disorders as such.

Okay so lets bring up ancient sparta murdered weak and disabled babies

Roman empire slaughtered people in the cosseum,

Or arabia before islam, where they used to bury little girls to death

Again, you are being small minded and aren't comprehending that I am talking about an underlying biological hardwiring.
I have already said many times that there are spectrums, and never once did I say these people "invented" morality.
Morality as we know it was produced by evolution as we are a pack animal and without social and cooperative behaviors we would die more easily. We needed these altruistic behaviors to survive and build society.

Also when you said they built morals for themselves to function as a society, you can condemn extremism and opression?? Because it has happened before?

These too are functions of their biological hardwiring gone to the extremes. Extremism is caused by the "in group" effect (search it up if you are uneducated) where they have a group they feel so aligned with they are willing to die for that group. This martyr behavior is also seen in many other pack animals. Oppression is also caused by this, see the stanford prison experiment if you want to educate yourself. They discriminate against people and are able to commit acts of horrific violence because
1) they see them as "other"
2) their group or "pack" is doing the same thing so they think it's okay
These are all scientific behaviors observed time and time in humans. Do research if you want to engage in an educated debate.

You are differing between “generating” and “discovering”, they discovered the golden rule, not generated it, because its part of reality

Not at all, I am not saying they "generated" it. I am saying the overarching themes were already within them and then stories that contained those ideals were generated. Please reread what I said.

There is correlation, so back in the islamic golden age everyone was practicing islam

Which then lead to one of the greatest empires (ummayad empire) which was the most civilized in probably all of history, was following the shaira law perfectly

Look at the arab world now, see the difference

Cherry picking final boss.
You would understand that religion is not the sole factor behind this. Yes religion plays a big part in early human societies as training wheels to form community, organization, and find purpose; but, now we have advanced and no longer need religion. If you are going to talk about religion, do not cherry pick.
I could provide you with an example of China: the VAST majority of them are atheists and they are coming up as the new world superpower, if not already. They alleviated the oil crisis but nobody really knows because it was behind the scenes. I don't agree with many things they do but it is very civilized.

The reason there is no correlation is because religion can cause great growth but also destruction. The harm of religion is that it's difficult to find where the line for "right" stands. Thats why there are different sects.


But, my main point is abrahamic religions did not make human morality, and the lack of following abrahamic religions is not the cause of lawlessness these days. Laws and structure are needed in society, but they should be formed off what the people need, not one man's law. Law should also be adaptable and not absolute.

 

[appealgod123]

I'm also ND. If you had read what I said, you would know that there are variations

I will copy paste exactly what you said

From here on we will define "normal" as people without mental disorders that inhibit their judgement and empathetic abilities

If i had to read what you said, its incomplete, but alright to the main point

Everyone will have differing views from each other but if you average all beliefs together then you will see overlapping themes.

average doesnt mean truth jfl, so because the average person back in the days thought slavery/murder was normal, it means its right??

the overlapping themes are called fitrah, you dont seem to do your research do you??

The Qur'an Project

Read, Think & Discover

www.quranproject.org

read this source and you'll understand

For the severe depression statement, yes, they aren't acting normal as that is a mental illness, but that doesn't make them less human. I did care less about others when I was severely depressed, but when we humans are at a baseline mental state, there will always be an average. By extremes on the spectrum I mean psychopaths and disorders as such.

i never said anyone was less human than another, it was to prove you your own definition is inconsistent and false

and you proved my main point, which is when you said "baseline mental state" and calling psychopoaths "extreme", we dont average everyone to find the truth, which is basically you admitting that a healthy baseline exists already, you cant claim morality is an average of beliefs but then exclude "extremes" to make your "average" work, meaning you used a baseline that already existed, which is al fitrah..

Again, you are being small minded and aren't comprehending that I am talking about an underlying biological hardwiring.
I have already said many times that there are spectrums, and never once did I say these people "invented" morality.
Morality as we know it was produced by evolution as we are a pack animal and without social and cooperative behaviors we would die more easily. We needed these altruistic behaviors to survive and build society.

first id like to address you denying something you said which is "and never once did I say these people invented morality".
when you said this:
"human morals are generated by humans"
contradiction but alrrr hhhhh

time to address the main claim:

so evolution hardwired humans for agression tribal violence and selfishness too, so if morality is evolutionary survival, then a pack murdering another pack is just "biology", so what evolution really is its the instinct/desire, not our morals

"underlying hardwiring" is exactly what islam preaches, the only difference is that what you think it is biological while its i know its designed by god just like i said above

i cant respond rn for the rest ill do it later/tmr