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Discussion are yall religious

Incognito said:
Islam actually offers a middle ground. It says that God knows everything that will happen, but his knowledge doesn’t force us into our choices.
Just because someone knows your future decision doesn’t mean they made it for you.

At the same time, there are aspects of life we never chose. Like our birthplace, our genetics, the struggles. Those are part of destiny. But the decisions we make in response to those conditions, those are truly ours. That’s why Islam puts so much emphasis on intention, effort, and striving toward what is right.

Islam shows that both coexist. life gives us a path, but we decide how we walk it. Our choices have weight, not because they change what God knows, but because they change who we are.
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agreed allahuma barik ahki
 
Incognito said:
I understand you, and also why the number of religions can make belief feel like a lottery. Many think we just happen to be born into whatever is closest. I honestly think that’s a very honest concern for every realist.

I can only talk from an Islamic view point though. from an Islamic perspective, the existence of many religions actually makes more sense, not less.

Islam teaches that:

• God sent guidance to every nation at different times

• Prophets came to all peoples, not only in the Middle East

• The core message was always the same: One God, do good, be just

• Over time, human edits, power, and culture changed those messages

So instead of saying “ours is the only one that exists,” Islam says:

Many were true originally. Islam is the continuation and restoration of that original message.

In other words, not a lucky guess, but the final version.


I disagree with this one. Islam doesn’t rely on tradition or cultural power to survive, it actually spread the most in times when Muslims had no political power at all. Today it’s still the fastest growing worldwide, and the religion with the highest retention among believers. People keep entering it even against pressure or trend.

Faiths driven purely by myth or culture they do indeed fade. Faiths grounded in what people experience as truth tend to persist.

Nah you’re absolutely right. No one should be forced into belief.

The Qur’an literally says:

“There is no compulsion in religion.” (2:256)


And opens with:

“To you your religion, to me mine.” (109:6)


You deserve the freedom to explore, question, doubt, that’s how sincere belief is built. If God exists, He would want you to choose Him because you found Him, not because you were born into something.
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In truth I also do need to look into Islam myself a lot more myself to develop a formulated view regarding it, I won’t add anything else here for now regarding it as I don’t want to necessarily debate you without all the facts as it would be wasting both of our time.

I would very much like to constructively debate you on this issue another time though, I very much appreciate constructive dialogue regarding religion and I think me and you would have fun going back and forth about this subject.

See you around bro.
 
Kaari said:
In truth I also do need to look into Islam myself a lot more myself to develop a formulated view regarding it, I won’t add anything else here for now regarding it as I don’t want to necessarily debate you without all the facts as it would be wasting both of our time.

I would very much like to constructively debate you on this issue another time though, I very much appreciate constructive dialogue regarding religion and I think me and you would have fun going back and forth about this subject.

See you around bro.
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i can send u some resources to learn about Islam if you want.
 
Kaari said:
In truth I also do need to look into Islam myself a lot more myself to develop a formulated view regarding it, I won’t add anything else here for now regarding it as I don’t want to necessarily debate you without all the facts as it would be wasting both of our time.

I would very much like to constructively debate you on this issue another time though, I very much appreciate constructive dialogue regarding religion and I think me and you would have fun going back and forth about this subject.

See you around bro.
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Sounds good, bro. I respect that you want to take the time to look into it properly before discussing. it shows you have an open heart and no bias. I’d be glad to have that debate with you whenever you’re ready, I know it definitely would be a good, constructive back and forth.
 
This is the Devil
 

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Incognito said:
Sounds good, bro. I respect that you want to take the time to look into it properly before discussing. it shows you have an open heart and no bias. I’d be glad to have that debate with you whenever you’re ready, I know it definitely would be a good, constructive back and forth.
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It would obviously take a while for me to articulate everything but I would very much be happy to have that discussion with you when the time comes, I also need to look into Orthodoxy myself so I will be occupied for the time being.

I will definitely would like to have this discussion with you though in future, it will be fun.
 
Kaari said:
All would work honestly, I do prefer literature though.
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I would advise these:

The Sealed Nectar by Safiur Rahman Mubarakpuri. It’s a detailed, authentic biography of the Prophet Muhammad.

The Divine Reality: God, Islam & The Mirage of Atheism by Hamza Andreas Tzortzis. Book that tackles religious skepticism with clear arguments and simple explanations.

Last book I would recommend is:

A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam by I.A. Ibrahim. It’s a short book, but it explains Islam’s core beliefs (Tawheed, prophethood, afterlife) and practices (prayer, charity) in simple language with diagrams and photos. And answers some sceptical questions.
 
Incognito said:
I would advise these:

The Sealed Nectar by Safiur Rahman Mubarakpuri. It’s a detailed, authentic biography of the Prophet Muhammad.

The Divine Reality: God, Islam & The Mirage of Atheism by Hamza Andreas Tzortzis. Book that tackles religious skepticism with clear arguments and simple explanations.

Last book I would recommend is:

A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam by I.A. Ibrahim. It’s a short book, but it explains Islam’s core beliefs (Tawheed, prophethood, afterlife) and practices (prayer, charity) in simple language with diagrams and photos. And answers some sceptical questions.
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I will bookmark this, thank you.
 
Incognito said:
Islam actually offers a middle ground. It says that God knows everything that will happen, but his knowledge doesn’t force us into our choices.
Just because someone knows your future decision doesn’t mean they made it for you.

At the same time, there are aspects of life we never chose. Like our birthplace, our genetics, the struggles. Those are part of destiny. But the decisions we make in response to those conditions, those are truly ours. That’s why Islam puts so much emphasis on intention, effort, and striving toward what is right.

Islam shows that both coexist. life gives us a path, but we decide how we walk it. Our choices have weight, not because they change what God knows, but because they change who we are.
Click to expand...
if you were born as someone else do you think you still would have ended up as a muslim?

the way im seeing it is that we are products of our environment

Imagine a plant,the seed is your genetics,dirt and weather is your environment and as you mature you become the guardner and you get to choose how to react to your conditions


But do you really get to choose your reactions, or is that also determined by your experiences?

Your "reactions" are a product of your brain's neurochemistry and wiring.That wiring was shaped by your genetics (the seed) and your life experiences (the dirt and weather).

Therefore, your "choice" of how to react is just the inevitable output of a complex system based on your predetermined programming. You are the gardener, but the gardener's every decision is itself a product of the seed, the soil, and the weather that made them.
 
wsada said:
if you were born as someone else do you think you still would have ended up as a muslim?

the way im seeing it is that we are products of our environment

Imagine a plant,the seed is your genetics,dirt and weather is your environment and as you mature you become the guardner and you get to choose how to react to your conditions


But do you really get to choose your reactions, or is that also determined by your experiences?

Your "reactions" are a product of your brain's neurochemistry and wiring.That wiring was shaped by your genetics (the seed) and your life experiences (the dirt and weather).

Therefore, your "choice" of how to react is just the inevitable output of a complex system based on your predetermined programming. You are the gardener, but the gardener's every decision is itself a product of the seed, the soil, and the weather that made them.
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You’re right that environment and biology shape a lot of who we are. Islam actually agrees about our upbringing influencing us and that our personality and impulses are partly innate or that our experiences change our wiring.

But if we say every choice is 100% predetermined by genetics and environment, then we run into a logical problem. If no one truly chooses anything, then there is no real morality, no real responsibility, no praise, no blame. No should or ought in life.

We couldn’t call anything good or evil, it would all just be cause and effect.

Even the statement “you only believe because of your environment” would apply equally to the person saying it. Their belief in determinism would also just be a product of their environment, not a truth they discovered using reason.

Determinism cancels itself out.

That’s why Islam agrees about influence but says there is a spark of autonomy:

You don’t choose your impulses, but you choose whether to follow them.


You don’t choose the test, but you choose how to respond to it.

Even neuroscientists find that the brain shows conflict signals before decisions. There is a part of us evaluating, resisting, overriding instinct, not just reacting.


In islam God only judges each person based on the knowledge and opportunities they had.

The Qur’an says:

“We never punish until We send a messenger.” (17:15)


Meaning, if someone was never exposed to the truth in a fair way, God won’t hold them accountable like someone who was.

Nobody is set up to fail.

Your analogy is actually close to the Islamic view bro, but it’s missing one thing.

I agree , genetics is the seed and environment is the soil and weather and experience shapes the gardener.

But Islam says:

God gave the gardener the ability to cut a new path, even if the soil is rough.

So actually the struggle itself is evidence of that freedom.
 
i'm not a religious because religiousness requires a belief, meanwhile have the knowledge of god's existence
 
Incognito said:
You’re right that environment and biology shape a lot of who we are. Islam actually agrees about our upbringing influencing us and that our personality and impulses are partly innate or that our experiences change our wiring.

But if we say every choice is 100% predetermined by genetics and environment, then we run into a logical problem. If no one truly chooses anything, then there is no real morality, no real responsibility, no praise, no blame. No should or ought in life.

We couldn’t call anything good or evil, it would all just be cause and effect.

Even the statement “you only believe because of your environment” would apply equally to the person saying it. Their belief in determinism would also just be a product of their environment, not a truth they discovered using reason.

Determinism cancels itself out.

That’s why Islam agrees about influence but says there is a spark of autonomy:

You don’t choose your impulses, but you choose whether to follow them.


You don’t choose the test, but you choose how to respond to it.

Even neuroscientists find that the brain shows conflict signals before decisions. There is a part of us evaluating, resisting, overriding instinct, not just reacting.


In islam God only judges each person based on the knowledge and opportunities they had.

The Qur’an says:

“We never punish until We send a messenger.” (17:15)


Meaning, if someone was never exposed to the truth in a fair way, God won’t hold them accountable like someone who was.

Nobody is set up to fail.

Your analogy is actually close to the Islamic view bro, but it’s missing one thing.

I agree , genetics is the seed and environment is the soil and weather and experience shapes the gardener.

But Islam says:

God gave the gardener the ability to cut a new path, even if the soil is rough.

So actually the struggle itself is evidence of that freedom.
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Thank you brother this is what ive been looking for
 
i kinda believe in god but i didnt grow up with any specific religion/beliefs
 
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