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Discussion A treatise on abortion's moral philosophy

I don’t think we’ll ever, as a society, come to a consensus on this issue.

There’s too many factors involved into how one views it including their morality, religion, personal experiences, how there were brought up etc
 
OsamaBinBallen said:
I was born to parents that had the ability to care for me. Yes, I have the right to exist. Irregardless, Everyone right now exists. You are moving the goalposts if you believe that potential lives are more valuable than current lives.
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All lives are valuable.
 
OsamaBinBallen said:
I was born to parents that had the ability to care for me. Yes, I have the right to exist. Irregardless, Everyone right now exists. You are moving the goalposts if you believe that potential lives are more valuable than current lives.
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They bring up abortion yet there is a bible verse where god shames a man for "spilling his seed" (pullout game ig)... you could argue that other ways of wasting your "seed" are no different than a human fetus
 
KobeLebron2423 said:
They bring up abortion yet there is a bible verse where god shames a man for "spilling his seed" (pullout game ig)... you could argue that other ways of wasting your "seed" are no different than a human fetus
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The biblical story of "God spilling seed"
refers to the account of Onan in the book of Genesis, where God put him to death for "wasting his seed on the ground" instead of fulfilling his levirate marriage duty to his deceased brother's widow. Onan's act was displeasing to the Lord because it was a selfish refusal to provide offspring for his brother, which was a significant responsibility to ensure his brother's lineage continued.
 
Mogden said:
“abortion is a complicated subject.”
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The debate over abortion reflects the difficulty of defining when a fetus becomes human—since development is a spectrum like a rainbow, society must rely on agreed-upon conventions (such as heartbeat or viability) to balance women’s rights with the moral concern of preventing murder.
 
diegofuego said:
The debate over abortion reflects the difficulty of defining when a fetus becomes human—since development is a spectrum like a rainbow, society must rely on agreed-upon conventions (such as heartbeat or viability) to balance women’s rights with the moral concern of preventing murder.
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Mr. Handsome over here :love:
 
Transposon said:
There’s this concept called gradeability in philosophy.
The best way to explain it is to imagine the rainbow
There’s no ‘point’ where the colour violet becomes indigo, or blue, green.
It’s a smooth transition, it’s a spectrum so as to say
Now, I want to bring up the second important concept relevant to this issue, the word - 'convention'. Broadly - ‘A convention can be defined as an agreed-upon standard, custom, or rule that governs behavior or practice’. Here's an example - we all agree with each other, it’s understood, that the abstract word ‘chair’ relates to that wooden object with 4 legs. To expand on this, it can indeed be said, all of our communication is based upon agreed upon definitions.


In an analogous manner, at one end you have the zygote. A unicellular organism in the female's fallopian tube and at the other is a delivered baby. The whole journey between the zygote to a human, thus, is like the transition of the colours, dependent on an innumerable number of mitoses. You can’t ’really’ point out one exact place where the ‘clump of cells’ becomes a human. So.. we have to choose, based upon our convenience, an agreed upon standard that we can all get behind, very similar to how - cross-culturally, we've decided for ourselves that the age '18' is when a teenager becomes an adult. There isn't even a persuasive biological certitude as to why, but we had to pick one age and so we we did. What matters more is we all agree upon this age, not that things would have changed were it to be 17, instead.

So, now we're left with the question, "What trait becomes a human, human?" We want women to be given rights, to do with their bodies as they want, but I'm quite sure none of us want to condone murder either. This in my opinion, then, is the core question of our issue.
Were it not for the stakes behind this, I might even call this question beautiful, our human-ness is something we're emotionally tied to.
Unfortunately, I think there cannot be a very satisfactory answer to this with the current political climate.

Before the left took very strongly to this issue, as far as I'm aware this was mostly in the hands of physicians. There the consensus was that heartbeat should be the measure. I can get behind this, it's very intuitive after all.
At one extreme, you have people who think that birth begins at conception. Their criteria is based, not on, morphological similarities to the 'human form'. But a cell having the potential to be human. Although I can get behind this too, the boundaries get fuzzy. Is a sperm not a potential human too, or an egg? In the left there’s this popular concept. I think it's that - it should be legal till 24 weeks since till then the foetus cannot survive outside of mother’s womb.
More importantly I do not think anyone wants to use logic to solve this issue. It's a very large, elaborate, virtue-signal fest going on between the left and the right. Who's more virtuous, the side that wants to save the poor women, repressed since millennia, or the one that wants to save indefensible little babies.

The people who say 'women should do whatever with their bodies and thus get an abortion at any point', come at this from the wrong angle. Not to mention how much of a slippery slope this is.. Should we all allow people to do xyz obviously morally corrupt action if it's their bodies making the 'action'.


The most I can hope for us, is, to get behind some universal laws at least. Everyone should be given the absolute best of medical care, if r**e or incest were involved.
Now if the question is, should Jessica, the college going girl, who 'accidentally' got pregnant and doesn't want to be a mother at 21 should get an abortion or not, we have to define the period till which she can, so a murder doesn't end up happening.
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Dnr put it into a yt short with Minecraft parkour in the background
 
diegofuego said:
The debate over abortion reflects the difficulty of defining when a fetus becomes human—since development is a spectrum like a rainbow, society must rely on agreed-upon conventions (such as heartbeat or viability) to balance women’s rights with the moral concern of preventing murder.
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people will never agree because they always resort to extremes. it is beneficial, though, to set clear boundaries as to what should be legal or not to avoid loopholes, so sometimes imagining extremes is needed.
 
“There’s this concept called gradeability in philosophy”
Sounds like you’re about to drop a truth nuke, then you just say “things can be on a spectrum."

Then you treat this entire thing like a fucking abstract puzzle when it's the messiest emotional and political topic there is. Get your morals from this guy if you wish to wake up in prison.
 
Spuffy said:
people will never agree because they always resort to extremes. it is beneficial, though, to set clear boundaries as to what should be legal or not to avoid loopholes, so sometimes imagining extremes is needed.
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Yes, totally agree
 
Schizotypalcel said:
“There’s this concept called gradeability in philosophy”
Sounds like you’re about to drop a truth nuke, then you just say “things can be on a spectrum."

Then you treat this entire thing like a fucking abstract puzzle when it's the messiest emotional and political topic there is. Get your morals from this guy if you wish to wake up in prison.
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very funny.
 
1000056195.jpg
 
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