Info Abortion: An Overview and Proposed Solutions - Technological Advances Will Change Everything

[cake]

This is complete BS
Einstein and Newton never have taken an Iq test obviously. Estimations on their IQ are retarded and pointless
Bill Gates IQ estimation comes from his SAT score (pre 94 SAT is highly correlated with IQ. Personally I don’t believe it’s legit but statistics show that it is, so make of it what you will)
Which would be around 159

IQ scores above 160, arguably above 150 or even 145 are dubious because tests can’t generally measure that high. The max score on most tests is 160.
Sometimes you see higher numbers cited, and this is because the old method of measuring IQ was mental age/over real age which isn’t considered legit anymore

The other time is because some tests are SD24 instead of SD15 (common practice in UK iirc), so while normally someone with an Iq of 115 is top 15%ish, in these cases someone with an IQ of 124 (on that test) is top 15%ish

But yes there are over a billion black people so there are definitely black geniuses. Everything is a game of numbers and statistics. SEA people are short on average but there’s definitely some 7’0” people from there

Yep he took cattel 3B which is SD24 so 162 translates to high 130s normally

 

[Deleted Member 30141]

This is complete BS
Einstein and Newton never have taken an Iq test obviously. Estimations on their IQ are retarded and pointless
Bill Gates IQ estimation comes from his SAT score (pre 94 SAT is highly correlated with IQ. Personally I don’t believe it’s legit but statistics show that it is, so make of it what you will)
Which would be around 159

ik its shock value
ignore that part, in specific they are black and have high IQ
the point is that there is potential

The other time is because some tests are SD24 instead of SD15 (common practice in UK iirc), so while normally someone with an Iq of 115 is top 15%ish, in these cases someone with an IQ of 124 (on that test) is top 15%ish

But yes there are over a billion black people so there are definitely black geniuses. Everything is a game of numbers and statistics. SEA people are short on average but there’s definitely some 7’0” people from there

ok

Yep he took cattel 3B which is SD24 so 162 translates to high 130s normally

is this a culture fair test?

 

[cake]

ik its shock value
ignore that part, in specific they are black and have high IQ
the point is that there is potential

There’s obviously potential, black people aren’t a different species. They’re still humans and American black Iq is what, 1SD below American white? Which is big for sure, but not world changing. There are like 30 million black people in the country so the smartest among those are bound to still be pretty smart.

ok

is this a culture fair test?

Yes I think so
Not so sure about Mensa and UK in general because Mensa kinda inflates to let more people in lol

 

[Deleted Member 30141]

Yes I think so
Not so sure about Mensa and UK in general because Mensa kinda inflates to let more people in lol

do you know any legit culture fair free tests?
i dont believe in the standard ones, they be asking me which definition fits best to a word ion even know

There’s obviously potential, black people aren’t a different species. They’re still humans and American black Iq is what, 1SD below American white? Which is big for sure, but not world changing. There are like 30 million black people in the country so the smartest among those are bound to still be pretty smart.

we need to cultivate humans across the globe... honor our specialties, our intelligence and complexity is a major evolutionary feat

 

[Clone]

Look at black Americans. Full nutrition and decent living conditions yet average IQ 80

 

[Clone]

Scientists can also predict the adult personality of babies at birth

That's cope because personality can change

 

[cake]

do you know any legit culture fair free tests?
i dont believe in the standard ones, they be asking me which definition fits best to a word ion even know

Tbh as much as I talk about IQ… a lot of it is bs. Like a huge component of verbal intelligence is just vocabulary which is dumb imo. The way processing speed is tested too.

There’s visual spatial.. which is like rotating images in your head and all. It’s good to show raw brainpower I guess… but again not super relevant to me

The most legit are working memory (essentially how much information you can keep in your brain at once and general memory to an extent. Most “smart” people and prodigies you see are like this, good at memorization and mental math and OP for general academics. Less useful as we have computers now), Fluid reasoning (100% the most legit. This is just pattern recognition and logical reasoning. “True” intelligence imo, if working memory is classroom intelligence fluid reasoning are the guys who discover or invent something.)

A good way to judge is just math ability tbh

If you want to just test pattern recognition check Mensa Norway. Decent enough. For working memory, the way it’s tested is they give you a string of numbers and ask you to repeat it. Reverse it, etc. there are random tools for this online, google and see how far you can get.

we need to cultivate humans across the globe... honor our specialties, our intelligence and complexity is a major evolutionary feat

 

[Deleted Member 30141]

Tbh as much as I talk about IQ… a lot of it is bs. Like a huge component of verbal intelligence is just vocabulary which is dumb imo. The way processing speed is tested too.

There’s visual spatial.. which is like rotating images in your head and all. It’s good to show raw brainpower I guess… but again not super relevant to me

The most legit are working memory (essentially how much information you can keep in your brain at once and general memory to an extent. Most “smart” people and prodigies you see are like this, good at memorization and mental math and OP for general academics. Less useful as we have computers now), Fluid reasoning (100% the most legit. This is just pattern recognition and logical reasoning. “True” intelligence imo, if working memory is classroom intelligence fluid reasoning are the guys who discover or invent something.)

A good way to judge is just math ability tbh

If you want to just test pattern recognition check Mensa Norway. Decent enough. For working memory, the way it’s tested is they give you a string of numbers and ask you to repeat it. Reverse it, etc. there are random tools for this online, google and see how far you can get.

Thanks
I will do this friday, bookmarked for now
I rot on here some more then go to sleep

 

[Snowskinned]

Eugenics are good, let subhumans abort their children. I’d even help them

Also JFL at considering blacks anywhere close to whites. There hasn’t been an actually influential black EVER. “Muh culture and poverty” low iq people create low iq culture which creates low iq people. Simple as that, it’s all correlated

And WTF is that BS about helping pregnant subhumans? That won’t do shit for the economy cuz it won’t work well + additional people will be useless due to their subhumanity

Just kill all CEOs in the food industry and promote meat. Everyone will be healthy and there won’t be so many mentally ill infertile(both of these things are heavily correlated with diet) people. Leading to more breeding and healthier children

Your take is bad for society and economy + it won’t even satisfy pro-life retards. Triple L literally

 

[neymar]

Yes, it’s necessary. Certain groups should be dealt with

Race is a social construct and theres ethnic minorities and disabled people who lifemog you and contribute far more. U dont get to decide the value of someone elses life lmao

 

[neymar]

Abortion will keep happening whether or not its legal, we need women to watch the procedures they get of fetuses being dismembered simply cause they failed at safe sex. If the condom broke and that leads to the right to terminating a humans chance at life then thats a skill issue

 

[neymar]

Eugenics are good, let subhumans abort their children. I’d even help them

Also JFL at considering blacks anywhere close to whites. There hasn’t been an actually influential black EVER. “Muh culture and poverty” low iq people create low iq culture which creates low iq people. Simple as that, it’s all correlated

And WTF is that BS about helping pregnant subhumans? That won’t do shit for the economy cuz it won’t work well + additional people will be useless due to their subhumanity

Just kill all CEOs in the food industry and promote meat. Everyone will be healthy and there won’t be so many mentally ill infertile(both of these things are heavily correlated with diet) people. Leading to more breeding and healthier children

Your take is bad for society and economy + it won’t even satisfy pro-life retards. Triple L literally

My guy
If eugenics was real u would not be alive

 

[Snowskinned]

My guy
If eugenics was real u would not be alive

I would. You wouldn’t, mr indian framecel

 

[pompompurino]

either way if abortion is outlawed nationwide (which won’t ever happen, extremely unlikely) people will still find ways to abort, these ways will be more unsafe than getting a legal abortion at a clinic.

 

[Deleted Member 30141]

either way if abortion is outlawed nationwide (which won’t ever happen, extremely unlikely) people will still find ways to abort, these ways will be more unsafe than getting a legal abortion at a clinic.

but y would they do that

 

[Deleted Member 30141]

Eugenics are good, let subhumans abort their children. I’d even help them

Also JFL at considering blacks anywhere close to whites. There hasn’t been an actually influential black EVER. “Muh culture and poverty” low iq people create low iq culture which creates low iq people. Simple as that, it’s all correlated

And WTF is that BS about helping pregnant subhumans? That won’t do shit for the economy cuz it won’t work well + additional people will be useless due to their subhumanity

Just kill all CEOs in the food industry and promote meat. Everyone will be healthy and there won’t be so many mentally ill infertile(both of these things are heavily correlated with diet) people. Leading to more breeding and healthier children

Your take is bad for society and economy + it won’t even satisfy pro-life retards. Triple L literally

all human life has inherent potential
environment matters a lot and we need to nurture and cultivate humanity
and why is their "usefulness" what matters
their usefulness is basically their ability to be slaves for society
let people experience life instead of brainwashing them to work a 9 to 5 chasing nothing but the dust of their dreams

 

[pompompurino]

but y would they do that

because when you want an abortion you will find a way, back then they would stick clothing hangers up there or doctors would perform secret illegal abortions on the side

 

[Deleted Member 30141]

because when you want an abortion you will find a way, back then they would stick clothing hangers up there or doctors would perform secret illegal abortions on the side

yes i wrote about that in my thread
in the thread i also talked about le solutions
support, free medical educational and financial care, artificial wombs, etc
abortions only for r**e, incest, and fatality for fetus and/or mother

 

[Snowskinned]

all human life has inherent potential
environment matters a lot and we need to nurture and cultivate humanity
and why is their "usefulness" what matters
their usefulness is basically their ability to be slaves for society
let people experience life instead of brainwashing them to work a 9 to 5 chasing nothing but the dust of their dreams

Them experiencing life leads to worsening of lifes of others

So nah, let me pass on that

 

[Deleted Member 30141]

Them experiencing life leads to worsening of lifes of others

So nah, let me pass on that

why not try to improve quality of life of people instead of ending them

 

[RAJ GHRANDHICK]

The Grand Solution to One of the Most Controversial Topics of Today: ABORTION : O​

Spoiler: OPENING STATEMENT

Opening Statement:
Each human life is intrinsically valuable. It is not dependent on if they can contribute to society (no slave worth), but on their potential to grow, develop, have a positive impact on themselves and others, and have a capacity to learn, love, and contribute. We are all interconnected and diverse, unique, special, and rare, in our own ways. Compassion is powerful, and all individuals have inherent worth.
I will not say that being born is a gift, nor is it a curse. All humans feel suffering and joy and have certain views on life. Life is an experience, if I can put it impartially. And I believe it is worth seeing till the end, because in the end you will die anyway. Might as well try to work hard and do your best for what you believe is right, go through the tribulations and pleasures, see what is out there.
Part of this paper was created using AI.

Spoiler: WHAT IS ABORTION?

Firstly, lets define abortion. According to the Oxford Dictionary, abortion in the context we are speaking of is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

When does life begin? Life begins at conception. It begins when sperm and eggs fuse to give rise to a single cell human zygote whose genetic individuality and uniqueness remain unchanged during normal development is widely supported. This is a fact, not an opinion. The zygote has the capacity to become an adult human individual.

look at dat lil bro we all used to be him

Types of Abortion:
Medication Abortion: Two medications, mifepristone, and misoprostol. Mifepristone blocks the hormone progesterone, which is necessary to maintain a pregnancy. Misoprostol causes contractions of the uterus to expel the pregnancy tissue. This method is typically used up to about 10 weeks of pregnancy.
Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): Used after 14 weeks (usually till 24th week) of pregnancy, it involves dilating the cervix and using forceps and other instruments to remove the pregnancy tissue. It's usually done under anesthesia. The fetus’ limbs are torn off, and then the doctor prods around searching for its head and then crushing it. Then everything else is scraped out.

Suction Aspiration: This is the most common type of abortion, used up to about 14 weeks of pregnancy. A tube is inserted into the uterus through the cervix, and the pregnancy tissue is removed using suction.

“Abortion may also be performed surgically by hysterotomy or gravid hysterectomy. Hysterotomy abortion is a procedure similar to a caesarean section and is performed under general anesthesia. It requires a smaller incision than a caesarean section and

can be used during later stages of pregnancy. Gravid hysterectomy refers to removal of the whole uterus while still containing the pregnancy. Hysterotomy and hysterectomy are associated with much higher rates of maternal morbidity and mortality than D&E or induction abortion.[80]
In places lacking the necessary medical skill for dilation and extraction, or when preferred by practitioners, an abortion can be induced by first inducing labor and then inducing fetal demise if necessary.[84] This is sometimes called "induced miscarriage". This procedure may be performed from 13 weeks gestation to the third trimester. Although it is very uncommon in the United States, more than 80% of induced abortions throughout the second trimester are labor-induced abortions in Sweden and other nearby countries.[85]
Only limited data are available comparing labor-induced abortion with the dilation and extraction method.[85] Unlike D&E, labor-induced abortions after 18 weeks may be complicated by the occurrence of brief fetal survival, which may be legally characterized as live birth. For this reason, labor-induced abortion is legally risky in the United States.[85][86]
Instillation abortion is performed by injecting a chemical solution consisting of either saline, urea, or prostaglandin through the abdomen and into the amniotic sac. The cervix is dilated prior to the injection, and the chemical solution induces uterine contractions which expel the fetus.[1] Sometimes a dilation and curettage procedure is necessary to remove any remaining fetal or placenta tissue.[2]
Instillation methods can require hospitalization for 12 to 48 hours.[2] In one study, when laminaria were used to dilate the cervix overnight, the time between injection and completion was reduced from 29 to 14 hours.[3]
However, this has fallen out of favor due to adverse side effects. Additionally, it is likely extremely painful, the fetus is literally being burned alive with the saline.
IDX (Intact Dilation and Extraction): During the surgery, the fetus is removed from the uterus in the breech position. If the fetal presentation is not breech, forceps or manual manipulation can be used to turn it to a breech presentation while in the uterus (internal version).[6] The fetal skull is usually the largest part of the fetal body and its removal may require mechanical collapse if it is too large to fit through the cervical canal.[5] Decompression of the skull can be accomplished by incision and suction of the brain or by using forceps to collapse the skull.[4]” Basically, the baby is partially induced to be born and its skull is crushed.
I would suggest using Google images to see how the procedures are done and how the aborted fetus appears, I won’t post it here due to NSFW rules. While you may say this is an attempt for persuasion: it may be, but I also want to show the reality.

• If a woman attempts abortion without medical care, it is very risky. She might go to a fake doctor/healer, use herbs, insert painful objects inside of her via the vagina, use drugs, and cause trauma to the abdomen. This is very rare in countries that have legal abortion, but it is done out of desperation.
• Mental health of the woman involving abortions is either inconclusive or not correlated. More studies need to be done.
• An extremely low number of babies have survived abortions, with around 277 recorded instances.
• Although subject to debate, the earliest some experts believe is 12 weeks for a fetus to feel pain. 94% of abortions are performed prior to 13 weeks. Fetal anesthesia does not exist.

Some Arguments Involving Abortion:

Spoiler: FUTURE POTENTIAL ARGUMENT

The “Future Potential” Argument
This argument can be used both ways, although oftentimes for the pro-life from what I’ve heard. I will explain why I believe it is invalid. This argument is about the future outcome of the fetus, and if it will have a positive or negative impact on society.
Example:

• Pro-Choice: What if the baby grows up to be a criminal? Like a serial killer or in general low-life?
• Pro-Life: What if the baby ends up becoming a scientific researcher and discovers cures to untreatable diseases?

Some studies show that babies born from unplanned pregnancies in unstable environments can grow up and have a higher risk of behavioral issues, in general growing up in poor socioeconomic or unsafe situations, parental neglect, foster homes, and lack of good education can very much lead to criminal behavior.
The 1972 Rockefeller Commission on "Population and the American Future" cites a 1966 study which found that children born to women who had been denied an abortion "turned out to have been registered more often with psychiatric services, engaged in more antisocial and criminal behavior, and have been more dependent on public assistance."[5] In particular, the study looked at the children of 188 women who were denied abortions from 1939 to 1941 at the hospital in Gothenburg, Sweden. They compared these unwanted children to another group – the next child born after each of the unwanted children at the hospital. The unwanted children were more likely to grow up in adverse conditions, such as having divorced parents or being raised in foster homes and were more likely to become delinquents and engaged in crime.[6]
I believe this argument is invalid because these things can happen even if the pregnancy was unplanned. Additionally, it would be better to address the underlying issues instead of terminating life before it even begins. Things like access to good education and familial support would fix this. More on that later.
Also, nobody is purely good or bad. This is a simplistic and subjective view on people. Humans are complex, we are capable and do commit acts of great kindness and terrible cruelty. People’s beliefs and actions are shaped by their genes and upbringing, and regardless, everyone has inherent value and potential. It is better to be compassionate and understand that we are human, instead of jumping to narrow-minded extremes.

Spoiler: VIOLINIST ARGUMENT

The violinist argument, introduced by philosopher Judith Jarvis Thomson, is a thought experiment used to challenge the common pro-life argument that a fetus has a right to life.
The Scenario:
Imagine waking up to find yourself connected to a famous unconscious violinist. The violinist has a fatal kidney ailment, and you are the only person with the right blood type to keep him alive. If you unplug yourself, the violinist will die.

The Argument:
Thomson argues that while it would be a kind act to stay connected to the violinist for nine months, you are not morally obligated to do so. Your right to your own body outweighs the violinist's right to life.
Applying to Abortion:
Thomson extends this argument to abortion. She suggests that while a fetus has a right to life, it does not have a right to use another person's body to sustain that life. A woman's right to bodily autonomy outweighs the fetus's right to life, making abortion morally permissible in certain circumstances.
Criticisms of the Argument:

• The Voluntary Nature of Pregnancy: Critics argue that pregnancy is not a voluntary act like being connected to a violinist. Sexual activity, which can lead to pregnancy, is a choice (at least most of the time, 1.5% of women who get an abortion do it because of r**e or incest).
• The Special Relationship: Some argue that the relationship between a mother and her fetus is unique and creates a special obligation to care for the fetus.
• The Fetus as a Person: Some argue that a fetus is a person from conception and therefore has a right to life, regardless of the circumstances of its conception.

My final solution will also help remove the ethics regarding this problem. You will see, wink wink .

Spoiler: REASONS

Overview of Reasons
Socioeconomic factors are often taken into consideration. Women who live with a lower income are less likely to get contraceptives, live in higher crime neighborhoods, and will struggle to afford to raise a child. Thus, a woman is more inclined to try to get an abortion, although sometimes she is unable to because she cannot afford it.

Another reason is to pursue an education, a woman will probably mess around a lot nowadays but wants to have a stable career and social life.

Sometimes, contraceptives fail by accident/rough sex, expiration, simple misplacement or poor material, or a sexual crime called stealthing is committed, where one of the partners purposefully damages or changes the contraceptive, to cause STDs and/or pregnancy.
Other sexually violent crimes like r**e and incest happen which are terrible.
There are also women in domestically violent or generally unsafe circumstances that are difficult to get out of, and she doesn’t want to bring a child into a world like that.
Additionally, other reasons like youth, expectations/pressure by peers, society, family, or fears lead to it.
And finally, a rare one, which is a health concern. Sometimes the baby will have a severe medical condition that is fatal to the fetus and/or mother.

There are several complex factors that contribute to young people engaging in sexual activity, often in tandem.

• Biology: Puberty leads to hormonal changes that can increase sexual desire and interest. In general, it is normal for maturing people and adults to want to have sex, it's natural.
• Society and Culture: Cultural norms and peer pressure can influence when and how young people become sexually active.
• Relationships: People in romantic relationships may feel pressure to have sex and satisfy their partner.
• Lack of Access to Comprehensive Sex Education: A lack of information about sex, contraception, and healthy relationships can lead to risky sexual behaviors.
• Media Influence: Portrayals of sex in media can shape young people's understanding of sexuality and relationships, especially oversexualization.

Spoiler: INSTANCES IN NATURE

Now, let’s ask AI for examples of animals in nature aborting their children.
Yes, some animals abort their babies in nature:

• The Bruce effect
• When a new male enters a group, some pregnant female mammals abort or reabsorb their fetuses. This can happen in mice, deer mice, meadow voles, prairie voles, Mongolian gerbils, rats, sheep, and horses. The female may smell the new male's urine and abort. This behavior can help the mother save time and energy, and it can also benefit the new male.
• Stressful events: Animals may abort their fetuses in response to stressful events like food scarcity, disease, or environmental conditions.
• Egg tossing: In communally nesting birds, the dominant female may push the other birds' eggs out of the nest, killing them.
• Trauma from capture: Pregnant sharks and rays may abort their young if they are captured by fishermen. The trauma of being caught can be enough to cause an abortion.

Some animals also display filial cannibalism where they eat their young shortly after giving birth.
Filial cannibalism can occur for a number of reasons, including:

• When an infant is sick or deformed
• When the mother can't produce enough milk or food
• When the baby dies or can't survive
• As a way to maximize reproductive success

Scientists believe that there is an evolutionary benefit to filial cannibalism, and that it's why the behavior has persisted across so many species.
So: abortion is somewhat natural, including purposeful. It is a response to threats, new mates, resource scarcity, the baby’s genetic fitness, and other reasons.
We can see this displayed in humans, although somewhat different it follows the pattern.

Spoiler: EUGENICS

Eugenics:

• the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable. Developed largely by Sir Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, eugenics was increasingly discredited as unscientific and racially biased during the 20th century, especially after the adoption of its doctrines by the Nazis in order to justify their treatment of Jews, disabled people, and other minority groups.

Some eugenics movements saw abortion as a way to prevent the birth of “unfit” individuals. It could be anything like intelligence, disability, and race.
A handful of people today view aborting babies who are tested for genetic abnormalities as eugenics. For example, chromosomal and inherited disorders like Down syndrome (Trisomy 21) or Huntington’s disease (brain degeneration).

Spoiler: MORTALITY AND DISEASE

Mortality
However, some genetic abnormalities are 100% or near fatal to the fetus, or after birth, such as anencephaly, inciencephaly (very rarely in mild cases they may survive), severe trisomy 13/Patau Syndrome, Trisomy 18 (Edwards syndrome), renal agenesis (missing kidneys, if both are missing it leads to early death), and other defects.
Additionally, an ectopic pregnancy (fertilized egg outside of the uterus) is not viable. Other unviable pregnancies are molar, or a blighted ovum when the fetus stops developing.
Now, the conditions for the mother:

• Severe preeclampsia - deadly for both the mother and fetus. Nearly half of the babies are stillborn or die in the early neonatal period. The other half usually has severe life-inhibiting disorders. It is among the leading causes of death for birthing mothers. Most women will have their pregnancies artificially induced early, which does have problems for the fetus both short and long-term but is safer.
• Eclampsia: an even more severe version of preeclampsia, maternal and fetal mortality is 50% without medical care. Eclampsia and severe preeclampsia are major death causes for women in developing countries.
• Cancer: when aggressive treatment is required for cancers, there is a significant risk. Chemotherapy, radiation, hormone therapy, and surgery, may harm or kill the baby short-term or long-term, and lack of treatment will also harm/kill the mother. While it is extremely rare, sometimes the child may absorb cancer cells and have cancer as well.
• For people who have severe heart conditions, they may be exacerbated during pregnancy and are also a massive cause of maternal death. Additionally, it may be inherited. Often women are recommended to have an early abortion for the safety of the mother.

Other

• r**e: there are increased stress hormones during pregnancy, associated with miscarriages and early births, or poor fetal development. Poor mental health, inability to take care of oneself, and self-harm are also major risks. Babies will often grow up to have social disorders. If you read prior, animals often reabsorb their fetuses in times of stress. This may also partially be an unconscious strategy in nature, as r**e is a lack of consent on the mother’s part, and in nature, you want to select good genes instead of having them forced onto you.
• As for incest r**e, the same applies, as well as the increased risk of genetic abnormalities and miscarriage.

Spoiler: FOUNDATIONAL SOLUTIONS

Now, as for the basic solutions.
For the Mother: Comprehensive Support Services
→ Crisis Pregnancy Centers: Offering confidential counseling, material assistance, and adoption resources to women facing unplanned pregnancies.
→ Financial assistance: Programs providing financial aid for prenatal care, childbirth expenses, and childcare.
→ Housing assistance: Secure and affordable housing options for pregnant women and mothers.
→ Healthcare access: Ensuring access to quality prenatal and postnatal care, including mental health support. I believe healthcare and free clean water should be a universal right, as well as more efficient. But this is a step in the right direction.
→ Education and job training: Programs to help mothers acquire skills and education to improve their economic situation.
→ Parental planning: learning about how to take care of a child and being a good parent.
→ Adoption resources: Information and support for women considering adoption as an option.

→ Counseling and support groups: Providing emotional support and guidance throughout the pregnancy and beyond.
→ Involvement: Encouraging fathers to take responsibility and support the mother throughout the pregnancy and beyond, as well as other people such as family, close friends, and workers. This can include financial support, emotional support, and shared decision-making.
→ Community Support: Building strong communities that offer support and resources to pregnant women, such as community centers and non-profit organizations.
For the Fetus:

• Prenatal Care:
  • Early and regular prenatal checkups to monitor fetal development and address potential health issues.
  • Nutritional counseling: Guidance on a healthy diet to support fetal growth and development.
  • Medication and treatment: Addressing any medical conditions that may affect the fetus.
  • Education on fetal development: Providing information about fetal growth and milestones to foster a positive bond between mother and child.
• Advanced Medical Care: Access to specialized medical care for fetuses with complex medical conditions, including fetal surgery and therapy.
• Research and Innovation: Continued investment in research to improve maternal and fetal health, develop new treatments, and prevent birth defects.

Spoiler: Potential Downsides to Proposed Solutions for These Abortion Alternatives

Potential Downsides to Proposed Solutions for These Abortion Alternatives​

For the Mother:​

• Dependency on Government Programs: Reliance on government-funded programs can lead to delays and potential cuts in funding.
• Limited Availability of Services: Access to quality healthcare, housing, and education may be limited in certain areas, particularly in rural or underserved communities.
• Stigma and Discrimination: Women seeking assistance may face stigma and discrimination, impacting their self-esteem and access to services.
• Ineffective Programs: Some programs may be poorly designed or implemented, failing to address the underlying needs of women.

For the Fetus:

• Limited Access to Advanced Care: Access to specialized medical care, such as fetal surgery, may be limited due to cost or geographic location.
• Ineffective Prenatal Care: Poor-quality prenatal care can lead to adverse birth outcomes.
• Lack of Education and Awareness: Limited access to information about fetal development and healthy pregnancy practices can negatively impact maternal and child health.

General Challenges:

• Funding Constraints: Many of these solutions require significant funding, which may be difficult to secure, especially during economic downturns.
• Cultural and Religious Barriers: Cultural and religious beliefs can influence attitudes towards abortion and family planning, making it difficult to implement certain solutions like communal and familial support.

As for Adoption:

Emotional Impact​

• Grief and Loss: Placing a child for adoption can lead to significant grief and loss, particularly as the child grows and develops.
• Regret: Some birth parents may experience feelings of regret, especially if they later face difficulties in their own lives or if they are unable to maintain contact with their child.
• Difficulty Bonding with Future Children: Some birth parents may struggle to form strong bonds with future children, fearing a repeat of the loss.

Practical Considerations​

• Limited Contact: In many cases, birth parents have limited or no contact with their child after placement. This can be emotionally challenging, particularly if they desire a relationship.
• Legal Process: The adoption process can be emotionally draining and legally complex, requiring significant paperwork and court appearances.
• Financial Costs: While some adoptions are subsidized, others may involve significant financial costs, including legal fees and medical expenses.

Drawbacks of Foster Care​

While foster care provides a temporary home for children who cannot live with their biological families, it also presents challenges:

Emotional Impact on the Child​

• Trauma and Instability: Many children in foster care have experienced trauma, neglect, or abuse, which can lead to emotional and behavioral difficulties.
• Frequent Moves: Frequent changes in placement can disrupt a child's sense of security and attachment.
• Loss and Grief: Children may grieve the loss of their biological family, even if the situation is unhealthy.

Challenges for Foster Parents​

• Emotional Toll: Caring for children with complex needs can be emotionally demanding.
• Limited Support: Foster parents may not receive adequate support and resources, leading to burnout.
• Legal and Bureaucratic Hurdles: Navigating the foster care system can be complex and time-consuming.
• Uncertain Future: The future of a foster child is often uncertain, as it depends on factors like reunification with the biological family or adoption.

System-Wide Issues​

• Overcrowding: Foster care systems can become overcrowded, leading to inadequate care and placement delays.
• Lack of Qualified Foster Parents: There is often a shortage of qualified foster parents, especially for children with special needs.
• Ineffective Case Management: Poor case management can lead to delays in providing services and support to children and families.

Spoiler: MASSIVE GAMECHANGER, A RECENT TECHNOLOGICAL INVENTION THAT WILL SHIFT ETHICS AND THE FUTURE REVOLVING AROUND ABORTIONS!

Drum roll please...
Artificial wombs, also known as artificial uteruses, are a concept that has been explored in science fiction for decades. The idea is to create a device that can support the growth and development of a fetus outside of a human body.

While this technology is still in its early stages, there has been significant progress in recent years. Researchers have successfully grown fetal lambs in artificial wombs for extended periods. However, there are still many technical and ethical challenges to overcome before artificial wombs can be used for human pregnancies.

Potential Benefits of Artificial Wombs:

• Increased Reproductive Options: Artificial wombs could offer new reproductive options for couples who are unable to conceive or carry a pregnancy to term.
• Improved Fetal Health: A controlled environment could reduce the risk of complications associated with pregnancy, such as premature birth and birth defects.

Challenges and Ethical Considerations:

• Technological Limitations: Current technology is not yet advanced enough to fully support the development of a human fetus.
• Ethical Concerns: The use of artificial wombs could raise ethical concerns about the nature of pregnancy, parenthood, and the value of human life.
• Social and Cultural Impact: The widespread use of artificial wombs could have significant social and cultural implications.

Challenges and Limitations:

• Technological Immaturity: Current technology is not yet advanced enough to fully support the development of a human fetus outside the womb.
• Ethical Considerations: The use of artificial wombs raises numerous ethical questions, such as:
  • Personhood: When does a fetus become a person with rights?
  • Parental Rights: Who would have parental rights over a fetus grown in an artificial womb?
  • Consent: Would a fetus have the right to refuse to be born into a particular society or family? – [My thoughts: Nobody consents to be born in the first place, regardless of being born right now or in the future of an artificial womb.]
• Social and Cultural Impact: The widespread use of artificial wombs could have significant social and cultural implications, challenging traditional notions of family, motherhood, and human development.
• Accessibility and Cost: Access to artificial womb technology would likely be limited by cost and availability, raising questions about equity and justice.

Could Artificial Wombs End the Abortion Debate? Christopher Kaczor: “Although artificial wombs may seem fanciful when first considered, certain trends suggest they may become reality. Between 1945 and the 1970s, the weight at which premature infants could survive dropped dramatically, moving from 1000 grams to around 400 grams.1 In 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court, in deciding Roe v. Wade, considered viability to begin around twenty-eight weeks. In 2000, premature babies were reported to have survived at eighteen weeks.2 Advanced incubators already in existence save thousands of children born prematurely each year. It is highly likely that such incubators will become even more advanced as technology progresses. Researchers are working to make super-advanced incubators, “artificial wombs,” a reality. Temple University professor Dr. Thomas Schaffer hopes to save premature infants using a synthetic amniotic fluid of oxygen-rich perfluorocarbons. Lack of funding has thus far prevented tests on human infants born prematurely, but Shaffer has successfully transferred premature lamb fetuses from their mother’s wombs and used the synthetic amniotic fluid to sustain their lives.3 At Cornell University, Dr. Hung-Ching Liu has taken steps toward developing an artificial womb by removing cells from the lining of a woman’s womb and then, using hormones, growing layers of these cells on a model of a uterus. The model eventually dissolves, leaving a new artificial womb that continues to thrive. What is more, Liu’s team found that, within days of being placed in the new womb, embryos will attach themselves to its walls and begin to grow. At that point, scientists must end the experiment to comply with in vitro fertilization (IVF) laws, so researchers do not yet know how long after the beginning stages of gestation this artificial womb would be viable.4”
“Abortion rights might be understood as the right not to be pregnant, the right not to have the human fetus in the womb, the right of extraction. On the other hand, abortion rights might be defined as the right to end the life of the human fetus in utero, the right to terminate not just the pregnancy, but also the life of the fetus.”
“Warren believes that the rights of the fetus to be in the womb do not trump the woman’s right of freedom, which is violated by the pregnancy. However, if the fetus were removed and placed in an artificial womb, the rights of the woman would no longer be violated. Likewise, in his book A Defense of Abortion, David Boonin argues against abortion as termination: [T]he claim that the woman has such a right [to terminate fetal life] would entail that if the baby survived an attempted abortion, or was born prematurely, before the woman had an opportunity to have the abortion performed, then she would still have the right to have it killed. And this is plainly unacceptable. It may well be true that many women who seek abortions do so because they want the fetus that they are carrying to be killed. And such women will to that extent be dissatisfied with a position in which it is morally permissible for them to have their viable fetuses extracted but not killed. But in the absence of an independent reason to think that they are entitled to have the fetus die when it is already viable, this seems to count more as a criticism of their desires than as an objection to the good samaritan argument.11”
Honestly, if the fetus is no longer a part of your body, then why should you have the right to kill it then. It’s not attached to you, there is nothing to gain from doing so unless you have some deeper reason like guilt to kill the child. The first definition of abortion rights given means that this technology is ideal, the second one is that you want to kill a fetus without searching for other solutions. This is a perfect opportunity to let it live without it impeding too much on your biology as you insisted on.
There is still a lot of nuance within religions surrounding this technology. Some interpret it as permissible, some don’t, some see it okay under certain circumstances.
Unfortunately, as you may have read, there are many restrictions that are preventing developments such as funding, laws, and also ethics. However, I firmly believe we should invest in this as it is seriously a wonderful thing.

Spoiler: INSTANCES WHERE ABORTION COULD BE LEGAL

CASES WHERE THE MOTHER MAY STILL CHOOSE TO ABORT DESPITE THE OPTIONS
As for fetuses that are genuinely nonviable/fail, it is best to abort them so as to not risk or kill the mother as well. Some may choose to abort fetuses that are only shortly viable after birth, such as Edwards’s syndrome, as to not experience all the pains involving labor since the fetus will die anyways. However, it is up to the mother, and she may choose to proceed for personal reasons, such as beliefs or just to hold it for a short while. Either way, when it is posing an extremely fatal risk to the fetus/mother and nothing such as technologies can prevent the deaths or lessen the extreme risks enough for the mother, I believe it should be completely legal for the woman to have an abortion.
However, I do also believe that a fetal anesthesia should be developed to prevent the pain.
As for r**e and incest, to me it is still a bit unsure. Yeah, you can most likely proceed with the artificial wombs and adoption/foster care even given the challenges, but it seems like a future full of turmoil given all of the drawbacks of adoption and foster care. As well as pain for the parent and child, being created of r**e.
For now, I will pick the ground of an early abortion. She should get one within 10 weeks, a pill abortion.

Spoiler: CLOSING STATEMENT

Closing Statement
In conclusion, the complex issue of abortion has been a subject of intense debate for decades. While there are passionate arguments on both sides, it is essential to approach this topic with empathy, understanding, and a commitment to finding solutions that respect the rights and well-being of all individuals involved.
This thread has explored the various facets of abortion, including its medical procedures, ethical implications, and societal impact. We have delved into the reasons why women choose abortion, the potential risks and benefits, and the moral considerations surrounding this choice.
Comprehensive support services for women facing unplanned pregnancies, and advancements in reproductive technologies such as artificial wombs, which could offer new options for women and reduce the need for abortions in certain cases seem to be a good fix for these issues, although there are still some drawbacks.
Continued research and innovation will continue, and it is important to have open dialogue and respect even though it can be a very sensitive and emotional topic.
By working together, we can create a society where women have the autonomy to make choices about their bodies and their futures, while also ensuring the well-being of all children.
Ultimately, the goal should be to reduce the number of abortions through education, prevention, and support, while also recognizing that abortion may still be a necessary option in certain circumstances.

Spoiler: SOURCES AND FURTHER READING

Sources and Further Reading
https://www.abortionprocedures.com/
https://www.webmd.com/women/abortion-procedures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction#Partial-birth_abortion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy#Live_birth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Methods
https://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=phil_fac
Ehh google and common sense in general
I also want to thank @Slicer for encouraging me in the creation of this thread : )

dnr also didn't knew this existed prolly will talk about abortion on discord when i get thought processes about it and i continue them and reach to some conclusions
then i would come on the server to discuss with yall
don't know when itll happen tho

also i abort babies without consent for fun