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I've yet to read a single convincing argument for moral realism

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Arya said:
incest isnt good
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I mean most people are bound to be normal, thats how things work

Some people ive seen say their terrible people, maybe they were mean to someone or so but that is a 'normal' trait. People do make mistakes, they arent always thinking.

But I don't know what exactly defines a 'good' person, I just know you can be 'bad' or not

But yeah, i need others opinion on this
 
vespertine said:
I mean most people are bound to be normal, thats how things work

Some people ive seen say their terrible people, maybe they were mean to someone or so but that is a 'normal' trait. People do make mistakes, they arent always thinking.

But I don't know what exactly defines a 'good' person, I just know you can be 'bad' or not

But yeah, i need others opinion on this
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wow good copypasta
 
Penalizer69 said:
There's nothing to elaborate on, If you never held humanity to any standards the world would crumble. An idealogical truth is still as real as any physical truth btw
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your position is more clear but this still isnt a straightfoward argument for moral realism.

"we need standards" to "those standards are objectively true" is a big leap which you havent justified.

you seem to be using "real" in a different sense than i. sure, money or the government or laws are "real" in a way because they're social phenomenon.

my question is more whether statements like "murder is wrong" are true because they're objective moral facts rather than being true with regards to human social attitudes.
 
vespertine said:
your position is more clear but this still isnt a straightfoward argument for moral realism.

"we need standards" to "those standards are objectively true" is a big leap which you havent justified.

you seem to be using "real" in a different sense than i. sure, money or the government or laws are "real" in a way because they're social phenomenon.

my question is more whether statements like "murder is wrong" are true because they're objective moral facts rather than being true with regards to human social attitudes.
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200.gif
 
vespertine said:
my question is more whether statements like "murder is wrong" are true because they're objective moral facts rather than being true with regards to human social attitudes.
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They're objectively true because they are socially unacceptable
 
Penalizer69 said:
No because not every moral opinion can be correct, but that doesn't change the fact that there are objective morals
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so:

1. something thats morally wrong is morally wrong because its socially unacceptable
2. something can be socially acceptable but still morally wrong

what would make slavery objectively wrong even when a society approves of it? if societal disapproval is what makes something wrong
 
vespertine said:
so:

1. something thats morally wrong is morally wrong because its socially unacceptable
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Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying there are things we all unanimously (except from mentally defunct individuals) can agree are wrong (murder, r**e)

There's more to it than that however. A bad action is simply an action with no good reason behind it that negatively impacts people. There doesn't need to be any rule to it
 
Penalizer69 said:
Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying there are things we all unanimously (except from mentally defunct individuals) can agree are wrong (murder, r**e)
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humanity has not been unanimous about murder, r**e, slavery, torture, genocide, etc. people have justified all of these under certain circumstances.

but even if it was true that some moral claims are unanimously agreed on, thats just consensus. not something as objective as gravity.
Penalizer69 said:
There's more to it than that however. A bad action is simply an action with no good reason behind it that negatively impacts people. There doesn't need to be any rule to it
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why would something negatively impacting people be a "bad" action? why would suffering be objectively bad rather than be something people tend to strongly dislike? even if literally everyone disliked chocolate ice cream, the jump to "chocolate ice cream is objectively bad in some fundamental cosmic sense" is unsupported.
 
Okay I've had time to think about it and

Objective morality is an issue of metaphysics. People must search for a reason, an end and a beginning, and if something is beyond the human mind then it must not exist. This is a stupid view, there needs to be no rule, no definition, no explanation, something can just be. Just as the sky is blue and just how the universe exists, morality is objective because it just is.

The problem with the idea that morals don't exist is that it's genuinely just a skill issue. You have low consciousness and genuinely just don't understand that certain things are beyond your consciousness
 
vespertine said:
View attachment 372125
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That's an issue of truth btw
Penalizer69 said:
Okay I've had time to think about it and

Objective morality is an issue of metaphysics. People must search for a reason, an end and a beginning, and if something is beyond the human mind then it must not exist. This is a stupid view, there needs to be no rule, no definition, no explanation, something can just be. Just as the sky is blue and just how the universe exists, morality is objective because it just is.

The problem with the idea that morals don't exist is that it's genuinely just a skill issue. You have low consciousness and genuinely just don't understand that certain things are beyond your consciousness
Click to expand...
 
Penalizer69 said:
Okay I've had time to think about it and

Objective morality is an issue of metaphysics. People must search for a reason, an end and a beginning, and if something is beyond the human mind then it must not exist. This is a stupid view, there needs to be no rule, no definition, no explanation, something can just be. Just as the sky is blue and just how the universe exists, morality is objective because it just is.

The problem with the idea that morals don't exist is that it's genuinely just a skill issue. You have low consciousness and genuinely just don't understand that certain things are beyond your consciousness
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what I said earlier
 
Penalizer69 said:
The guy nobody invited 💀
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In the absence of The Higher Being things become mindless and relative, if you affirm the absence of God yet believe in objective morality you're a stupid fool
Penalizer69 said:
Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying there are things we all unanimously (except from mentally defunct individuals) can agree are wrong (murder, r**e)

There's more to it than that however. A bad action is simply an action with no good reason behind it that negatively impacts people. There doesn't need to be any rule to it
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Why shall objectivity center around the human? Stupid viewpoint
 
Niggard said:
Why shall objectivity center around the human? Stupid viewpoint
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I'm literally saying the opposite btw 💀
Niggard said:
In the absence of The Higher Being things become mindless and relative, if you affirm the absence of God yet believe in objective morality you're a stupid fool
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Translating:
I have low consciousness and can't think for myself
 
Penalizer69 said:
if something is beyond the human mind then it must not exist.
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so only what is grasped by the human mind exists. thats a very strong claim.
Penalizer69 said:
Just as the sky is blue and just how the universe exists, morality is objective because it just is.
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"the sky is blue" works because thats the result of physical mechanisms. you can observe it.

what feature of reality makes a moral statement true or false in the first place?
Penalizer69 said:
The problem with the idea that morals don't exist is that it's genuinely just a skill issue. You have low consciousness and genuinely just don't understand that certain things are beyond your consciousness
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this is how people who are unable to defend their position talk

what makes a moral statement true or false independent of how anyone thinks or feels?
 
Niggard said:
In the absence of The Higher Being things become mindless and relative, if you affirm the absence of God yet believe in objective morality you're a stupid fool

Why shall objectivity center around the human? Stupid viewpoint
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why would god make morality objective?
 
vespertine said:
so only what is grasped by the human mind exists. thats a very strong claim.

"the sky is blue" works because thats the result of physical mechanisms. you can observe it.

what feature of reality makes a moral statement true or false in the first place?

this is how people who are unable to defend their position talk

what makes a moral statement true or false independent of how anyone thinks or feels?
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Why is everyone misspelling my points so badly holy fuckkkkkkkkkkkkk
 
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