Discussion Microneedle with Derminator 2 for Hair regrowth In-depth discussion

[IceBlueEyes]

I have been microneedling (MN) with the Derminator 2 for the last 9 months and have noticed considerable regrowth. However, I am not fully satisfied with the results. The crown region has filled in but not fully and the temples have vellus hairs and some terminal hairs but have not returned the level I once had. The progress is gradual and while I'm not looking for a quick fix, I want to make sure to optimize my gains.

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I have been microneedling (MN) with the Derminator 2 for the last 9 months and have noticed considerable regrowth. However, I am not fully satisfied with the results. The crown region has filled in but not fully and the temples have vellus hairs and some terminal hairs but have not returned the level I once had. The progress is gradual and while I'm not looking for a quick fix, I want to make sure to optimize my gains.
.
For anyone who wants to come in with fin/min/dut suggestions you can have that discussion elsewhere as this is for only the microneedling aspect. Also for the "microneedle causes scarring" people, this isn't the thread for you either.
Main questions for the discussion:
.
1. What is the number of passes to make over a given area for maximal regrowth?
2. Do you need to vary depth based on an area that is full of vellus hairs vs terminal hairs?
.
Number of Passes
I used to make one pass at the fast setting and while I liked the speed with which I would complete a session (around 30 mins - 1 hr), I felt like this was not good enough. I changed my settings to medium for slower passes and better quality microneedle punches. I also increased my passes to 2 to make sure I hit any spots I could have missed the first go around. In the bald temple region because of the slower growth, I upped it to 3 passes. What is the optimal number of passes to make over an area? At what point do you have to worry about causing too much trauma? I do this about once every week at 0.75 - 1.25.
.
Varying Depth
I am curious to find out if anyone has information on varying depth for areas with terminal hair vs full of vellus hairs.
.
Recognizing that the literature and medical field in general lags behind, what has your experience been and have you found something novel?




Some Articles for the skeptics (some sourced from perfect hair health website). If you have others to contribute can do so below. I also recall having seen one showing minoxidil alone and microneedling alone as having similar results, but was unable to find it again.

1. Microneedle with 0.6 vs 1.2mm has better results (used with minoxidil)

Microneedling in androgenetic alopecia; comparing two different depths of microneedles - PubMed​

Microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with AGA in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with AGA in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm."


2. PRP studies which show regrowth

https://academic.oup.com/stcltm/article/4/11/1317/6387852
https://karger.com/sad/article-abst...telet-Rich-Plasma-for?redirectedFrom=fulltext
3. Split scalp MN vs MN + PRP showing similar results

Dermoscopic Assessment of Microneedling Alone versus Microneedling with Platelet-Rich Plasma in Cases of Male Pattern Alopecia: A Split-Head Comparative Study - PubMed​

To the best of our knowledge, this is the first split scalp study for MPA. We conclude that MN and PRP are both effective in treatment of androgenetic alopecia and improve the hair parameters and patient satisfaction. However, no additional effect of PRP over MN was observed. Both these...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
4. PRP vs saline needle with similar results


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962220321708

For anyone who wants to come in with fin/min/dut suggestions you can have that discussion elsewhere as this is for only the microneedling aspect. Also for the "microneedle causes scarring" people, this isn't the thread for you either.
Main questions for the discussion:
.
1. What is the number of passes to make over a given area for maximal regrowth?
2. Do you need to vary depth based on an area that is full of vellus hairs vs terminal hairs?
.
Number of Passes
I used to make one pass at the fast setting and while I liked the speed with which I would complete a session (around 30 mins - 1 hr), I felt like this was not good enough. I changed my settings to medium for slower passes and better quality microneedle punches. I also increased my passes to 2 to make sure I hit any spots I could have missed the first go around. In the bald temple region because of the slower growth, I upped it to 3 passes. What is the optimal number of passes to make over an area? At what point do you have to worry about causing too much trauma? I do this about once every week at 0.75 - 1.25.
.
Varying Depth
I am curious to find out if anyone has information on varying depth for areas with terminal hair vs full of vellus hairs.
.
Recognizing that the literature and medical field in general lags behind, what has your experience been and have you found something novel?




Some Articles for the skeptics (some sourced from perfect hair health website). If you have others to contribute can do so below. I also recall having seen one showing minoxidil alone and microneedling alone as having similar results, but was unable to find it again.

1. Microneedle with 0.6 vs 1.2mm has better results (used with minoxidil)

Microneedling in androgenetic alopecia; comparing two different depths of microneedles - PubMed

Microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with AGA in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with AGA in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm."

2. PRP studies which show regrowth

https://academic.oup.com/stcltm/article/4/11/1317/6387852

https://karger.com/sad/article-abstract/4/1/1/291357/Effectiveness-of-Platelet-Rich-Plasma-for?redirectedFrom=fulltext

3. Split scalp MN vs MN + PRP showing similar results

Dermoscopic Assessment of Microneedling Alone versus Microneedling with Platelet-Rich Plasma in Cases of Male Pattern Alopecia: A Split-Head Comparative Study - PubMed

To the best of our knowledge, this is the first split scalp study for MPA. We conclude that MN and PRP are both effective in treatment of androgenetic alopecia and improve the hair parameters and patient satisfaction. However, no additional effect of PRP over MN was observed. Both these...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

4. PRP vs saline needle with similar results

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962220321708

 

[Vampi]

banger first post,

 

[SASALELE]

does it work in eyebrows

 

[IceBlueEyes]

does it work in eyebrows

I've been using it on my eyebrows but tbh haven't seen a difference. Maybe if you have experienced eye brow hair loss you can recover lost ground. Would probably need to use minoxidil on your eyebrows to improve the hair density.