Oath keeping and breaking in pre abrhamic society

[Lovinglad]

Oath keeping in non and pre abrahamic societies was seen as sacred and not to be broken. I'll be discussing my theories of origin and also some diverse regions that held it as sacred.


Origins
I believe oath keeping may have showed up around the ice age with the ANE population who inhabited south Siberia. This group would then go east and west to form the amerindians and the EHG populations who inhabited the America's and eastern Europe. The reason oath keeping was seen as so sacred I believe was due to the selection pressures of the region where if you didn't keep oaths you would die from either starvation or being killed.

Shinto beliefs on oath keeping
Within Shinto oath keeping is tied with purity ,sincererity and harmony with the kami.
Within Shinto due to the fact that any oath or words once spoken are witnessed by the kami breaking your oaths is seen as a disturbance to spiritual harmony and adds impurities to one's life which will need special rituals to fix.
Oaths are sometimes sealed with a symbolic gesture or act and violation of them would bring divine punishment towards not just the individual but the entire family.

Buddhist views on oath keeping
In Buddhism speech holds karmic weight and a false oath falls under the term musāvāda which is a basic precept lay Buddhist areaskes to follow.
Truthful words are seen as powerful and a sacca-kiriya can bring about a miracle.

A breaking of oaths is a negative karmic event and shows that you're untrustworthy and it is an event that shows you're void of Integrity.

Oath keeping in Hellenism
In Hellenism oath keeping is incredibly sacred sometimes oath itself (horkos) is seen as a spirit itself. When you invoke an oath you are bringing Zeus horkios as a witness and overseer of your oath. A breaking of oath wasn't just a dishonour but something incredibly dangerous to do as it would invoke divine wrath. Oaths were seen as important within Greek society aswell as trust was seen as the glue of civilization.


Oath breaking like in Shinto would bring pollution to not just the Individual but their family,community and even whole city. This pollution could come as a plague or even a military defeat similar to the illiad when Apollo shots at the black ships of Achilles and Agamemnon.

Germanic beliefs on oath keeping
The germanics saw oaths as a divine act and to break it was to dishonour the gods, this would then bring divine punishment by either tyr, Odin or Thor.

Tyr was seen as the God of oaths and one who binds them, to break oaths would to insult tyr and Odin. Perjury would cause outlawry as a coward and oathbreaker, this is one of the biggest insults in germanic society.
In the after life oath breakers would be taken to náströnd where murderers and adulterers were also held.

In conclusion you can see how sacred oaths are to our ancestors, this should help you understand and also take up the sanctity of oaths and promises and fufill everyone you participate in.

@huntergirl
@Randomized Shame erm can I get a pineroony

@tbl12
@pompompurino
@Volksstaffel

 

[Lovinglad]

@Prince
@lovingangel
@

 

[Deleted Member 85289]

None of them enforced those rituals by people tormenting others for not following it doe

 

[Lost Ferry CEO]

Oath keeping in non and pre abrahamic societies was seen as sacred and not to be broken. I'll be discussing my theories of origin and also some diverse regions that held it as sacred.


Origins
I believe oath keeping may have showed up around the ice age with the ANE population who inhabited south Siberia. This group would then go east and west to form the amerindians and the EHG populations who inhabited the America's and eastern Europe. The reason oath keeping was seen as so sacred I believe was due to the selection pressures of the region where if you didn't keep oaths you would die from either starvation or being killed.

Shinto beliefs on oath keeping
Within Shinto oath keeping is tied with purity ,sincererity and harmony with the kami.
Within Shinto due to the fact that any oath or words once spoken are witnessed by the kami breaking your oaths is seen as a disturbance to spiritual harmony and adds impurities to one's life which will need special rituals to fix.
Oaths are sometimes sealed with a symbolic gesture or act and violation of them would bring divine punishment towards not just the individual but the entire family.

Buddhist views on oath keeping
In Buddhism speech holds karmic weight and a false oath falls under the term musāvāda which is a basic precept lay Buddhist areaskes to follow.
Truthful words are seen as powerful and a sacca-kiriya can bring about a miracle.

A breaking of oaths is a negative karmic event and shows that you're untrustworthy and it is an event that shows you're void of Integrity.

Oath keeping in Hellenism
In Hellenism oath keeping is incredibly sacred sometimes oath itself (horkos) is seen as a spirit itself. When you invoke an oath you are bringing Zeus horkios as a witness and overseer of your oath. A breaking of oath wasn't just a dishonour but something incredibly dangerous to do as it would invoke divine wrath. Oaths were seen as important within Greek society aswell as trust was seen as the glue of civilization.


Oath breaking like in Shinto would bring pollution to not just the Individual but their family,community and even whole city. This pollution could come as a plague or even a military defeat similar to the illiad when Apollo shots at the black ships of Achilles and Agamemnon.

Germanic beliefs on oath keeping
The germanics saw oaths as a divine act and to break it was to dishonour the gods, this would then bring divine punishment by either tyr, Odin or Thor.

Tyr was seen as the God of oaths and one who binds them, to break oaths would to insult tyr and Odin. Perjury would cause outlawry as a coward and oathbreaker, this is one of the biggest insults in germanic society.
In the after life oath breakers would be taken to náströnd where murderers and adulterers were also held.

In conclusion you can see how sacred oaths are to our ancestors, this should help you understand and also take up the sanctity of oaths and promises and fufill everyone you participate in.

@huntergirl
@Randomized Shame erm can I get a pineroony

@tbl12
@pompompurino
@Volksstaffel

DNR but gold

 

[Deleted Member 49073]

It's interesting how most major archaic civilisations based their precepts on the idea of divine wrath.
Religion has illuded man for millennia.
Cool thread, finally something new.

 

[victorique]

It's interesting how most major archaic civilisations based their precepts on the idea of divine wrath.
Religion has illuded man for millennia.
Cool thread, finally something new.

crazy vci feat
i dont even understand

 

[Deleted Member 49073]

crazy vci feat
i dont even understand

What's a vci feat

 

[Lovinglad]

None of them enforced those rituals by people tormenting others for not following it doe

Actually plenty of times people would get killed for breaking oaths

 

[victorique]

What's a vci feat

verbal comprehension index

 

[Lovinglad]

It's interesting how most major archaic civilisations based their precepts on the idea of divine wrath.
Religion has illuded man for millennia.
Cool thread, finally something new.

Byw divine wrath then was seen more in natural events or the gods embodying someone else to kill the person

 

[Deleted Member 49073]

verbal comprehension index

Sometimes I take my time when writing to include more complex words. Not to be pretentious in any sense, it's just good practice.

Byw divine wrath then was seen more in natural events

Is that because religions used to be more paganistic? I know that in Zoroastrian law if someone were to break oath, they would "endanger their soul" and weaken the cosmic force against evil.

 

[pompompurino]

it’s pretty interesting seeing how something as simple as words (promises/oaths) held entire civilizations together.
i’m a very superstitious person myself, i make sure to always fulfill promises/oaths to others as well as the ones made to myself (which i think are some of the most important promises/oaths that can be made)

 

[Lovinglad]

Sometimes I take my time when writing to include more complex words. Not to be pretentious in any sense, it's just good practice.


Is that because religions used to be more paganistic? I know that in Zoroastrian law if someone were to break oath, they would "endanger their soul" and weaken the cosmic force against evil.

Yes paganism was inherently based on nature, this is also why you see that unlike Christianity paganism gets vindicated the more advanced we become scientifically

 

[victorique]

Sometimes I take my time when writing to include more complex words. Not to be pretentious in any sense, it's just good practice.


Is that because religions used to be more paganistic? I know that in Zoroastrian law if someone were to break oath, they would "endanger their soul" and weaken the cosmic force against evil.

i just think my vci in english is just low but yea i got it

 

[Lovinglad]

it’s pretty interesting seeing how something as simple as words (promises/oaths) held entire civilizations together.
i’m a very superstitious person myself, i make sure to always fulfill promises/oaths to others as well as the ones made to myself (which i think are some of the most important promises/oaths that can be made)

Well words are only seen as simple now beacuse we don't care about them much. Back in the day they were insanely important, for example in germanic society if someone of your class called you a f****t you would basically be obligated to fight them to the death

 

[pompompurino]

Well words are only seen as simple now beacuse we don't care about them much. Back in the day they were insanely important, for example in germanic society if someone of your class called you a f****t you would basically be obligated to fight them to the death

yea wow a few words used to actually dictate people’s lives and honor, now nobody even thinks twice about what they say lol
including me, but i should start taking what i say a bit more seriously

 

[Lovinglad]

@huntergirl this one

 

[Ruin]

None of them enforced those rituals by people tormenting others for not following it doe

sad tbh

 

[gimp]

Why this f*g thread is pinned

 

[Deleted Member 84302]

Oath keeping in non and pre abrahamic societies was seen as sacred and not to be broken. I'll be discussing my theories of origin and also some diverse regions that held it as sacred.


Origins
I believe oath keeping may have showed up around the ice age with the ANE population who inhabited south Siberia. This group would then go east and west to form the amerindians and the EHG populations who inhabited the America's and eastern Europe. The reason oath keeping was seen as so sacred I believe was due to the selection pressures of the region where if you didn't keep oaths you would die from either starvation or being killed.

Shinto beliefs on oath keeping
Within Shinto oath keeping is tied with purity ,sincererity and harmony with the kami.
Within Shinto due to the fact that any oath or words once spoken are witnessed by the kami breaking your oaths is seen as a disturbance to spiritual harmony and adds impurities to one's life which will need special rituals to fix.
Oaths are sometimes sealed with a symbolic gesture or act and violation of them would bring divine punishment towards not just the individual but the entire family.

Buddhist views on oath keeping
In Buddhism speech holds karmic weight and a false oath falls under the term musāvāda which is a basic precept lay Buddhist areaskes to follow.
Truthful words are seen as powerful and a sacca-kiriya can bring about a miracle.

A breaking of oaths is a negative karmic event and shows that you're untrustworthy and it is an event that shows you're void of Integrity.

Oath keeping in Hellenism
In Hellenism oath keeping is incredibly sacred sometimes oath itself (horkos) is seen as a spirit itself. When you invoke an oath you are bringing Zeus horkios as a witness and overseer of your oath. A breaking of oath wasn't just a dishonour but something incredibly dangerous to do as it would invoke divine wrath. Oaths were seen as important within Greek society aswell as trust was seen as the glue of civilization.


Oath breaking like in Shinto would bring pollution to not just the Individual but their family,community and even whole city. This pollution could come as a plague or even a military defeat similar to the illiad when Apollo shots at the black ships of Achilles and Agamemnon.

Germanic beliefs on oath keeping
The germanics saw oaths as a divine act and to break it was to dishonour the gods, this would then bring divine punishment by either tyr, Odin or Thor.

Tyr was seen as the God of oaths and one who binds them, to break oaths would to insult tyr and Odin. Perjury would cause outlawry as a coward and oathbreaker, this is one of the biggest insults in germanic society.
In the after life oath breakers would be taken to náströnd where murderers and adulterers were also held.

In conclusion you can see how sacred oaths are to our ancestors, this should help you understand and also take up the sanctity of oaths and promises and fufill everyone you participate in.

@huntergirl
@Randomized Shame erm can I get a pineroony

@tbl12
@pompompurino
@Volksstaffel

No way you convinced @huntergirl to pin ur shit, chop chop hunter pin one of my threads asap

 

[Norwood Reaper]

summary?

 

[Lovinglad]

summary?

 

[Norwood Reaper]

View attachment 185282

smash

 

[Justice_]

Why is this thread pinned?

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

Religion has illuded man for millennia.

False.

 

[Lovinglad]

False.

Kinda true actually

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

Kinda true actually

No, it's not.

Religion and ritual behaviors literally helped build human civilization. It was one of our first organizing principles for large-scale cooperation beyond family groups. It created shared narratives and moral frameworks that allowed strangers to trust each other and work together.

In fact, I would go as to even say that saying "religion illuded man" is like saying "government illuded man" or "trade illuded man." It's a fundamental social technology that emerged independently in every human society because it served crucial functions, from knowledge preservation to social cohesion to psychological coping mechanisms.

Whether you believe in any religion or not, reducing thousands of years of human cultural evolution, philosophy, and social organization to "hurr durr people were fooled" is peak historical illiteracy.

The complex reality of how religion shaped human society and consciousness is far more interesting.

 

[Lovinglad]

No, it's not.

Religion and ritual behaviors literally helped build human civilization. It was one of our first organizing principles for large-scale cooperation beyond family groups. It created shared narratives and moral frameworks that allowed strangers to trust each other and work together.

In fact, I would go as to even say that saying "religion illuded man" is like saying "government illuded man" or "trade illuded man." It's a fundamental social technology that emerged independently in every human society because it served crucial functions, from knowledge preservation to social cohesion to psychological coping mechanisms.

Whether you believe in any religion or not, reducing thousands of years of human cultural evolution, philosophy, and social organization to "hurr durr people were fooled" is peak historical illiteracy.

The complex reality of how religion shaped human society and consciousness is far more interesting.

He said 1000 years thats a strict time frame, Christianity has illuded man for a millennia

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

He said 1000 years thats a strict time frame, Christianity has illuded man for a millennia

Oh my God.

"Millennia" is the PLURAL of "millennium." One millennium = 1000 years. Multiple millennia = multiple thousands of years.

Not only did you try to correct someone while being completely wrong, YOU didn't even know what the word meant. The original statement was actually BROADER than your correction.

And even if we focus just on Christianity, my brother in Christ, it's been around for TWO millennia, not one. It's literally 2025 (as of this conversation).

What do you think the years are counted from?

 

[Lovinglad]

Oh my God.

"Millennia" is the PLURAL of "millennium." One millennium = 1000 years. Multiple millennia = multiple thousands of years.

Not only did you try to correct someone while being completely wrong, YOU didn't even know what the word meant. The original statement was actually BROADER than your correction.

And even if we focus just on Christianity, my brother in Christ, it's been around for TWO millennia, not one. It's literally 2025 (as of this conversation).

What do you think the years are counted from?

Europe was fully non pagan until after the year 1000, idgaf about sand nigs

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

Europe was fully non pagan until after the year 1000

n***a, no.

1. Charlemagne was literally mass-converting Saxons in the 8th century (700s)
2. The Roman Empire officially adopted Christianity in 380 CE
3. Constantine converted in 312 CE
4. The British Isles were mostly Christianized by 600-700 CE
5. The Franks converted in the 500s
6. Even the Vikings started converting in the late 900s

The year 1000??? My brother in Christ, by then most of Western and Central Europe had been Christian for CENTURIES. The only major holdouts were some Baltic and far northern regions.

This is like saying "America wasn't independent until 1900." You're being off by literally half a millennium or more for most of Europe.

I'm starting to think you're getting your historical education from Netflix shows or something.

 

[Lovinglad]

n***a, no.

1. Charlemagne was literally mass-converting Saxons in the 8th century (700s)
2. The Roman Empire officially adopted Christianity in 380 CE
3. Constantine converted in 312 CE
4. The British Isles were mostly Christianized by 600-700 CE
5. The Franks converted in the 500s
6. Even the Vikings started converting in the late 900s

The year 1000??? My brother in Christ, by then most of Western and Central Europe had been Christian for CENTURIES. The only major holdouts were some Baltic and far northern regions.

This is like saying "America wasn't independent until 1900." You're being off by literally half a millennium or more for most of Europe.

I'm starting to think you're getting your historical education from Netflix shows or something.

Large swathes of eastern Europe were pagan so I'm still correct ? Your American example makes no sense btw.

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

Large swathes of eastern Europe were pagan so I'm still correct ? Your American example makes no sense btw.

LMFAO moving those goalposts like an Olympic athlete.

You went from went from "Europe was fully non pagan until after 1000" to "well ACKSHUALLY some parts of Eastern Europe were still pagan so I'm right!"

Bro, that's like saying "The United States wasn't independent until 1959 because Hawaii wasn't a state yet." Or "Europe wasn't using electricity until 1950 because some remote village in the Alps didn't have it."

And even your desperate save about Eastern Europe is wrong:

1. Bulgaria converted in 864
2. Kievan Rus (modern Ukraine/Russia) converted in 988
3. Poland converted in the 960s
4. Hungary converted around 1000

By 1000, the only significant pagan areas were basically:

- Some Baltic tribes
- Parts of Finland
- Some scattered tribal areas

I'm still correct

How do you even come to this conclusion when you basically did the Reddit equivalent of tripping, then saying "I meant to do that"???

 

[Lovinglad]

LMFAO moving those goalposts like an Olympic athlete.

You went from went from "Europe was fully non pagan until after 1000" to "well ACKSHUALLY some parts of Eastern Europe were still pagan so I'm right!"

Bro, that's like saying "The United States wasn't independent until 1959 because Hawaii wasn't a state yet." Or "Europe wasn't using electricity until 1950 because some remote village in the Alps didn't have it."

And even your desperate save about Eastern Europe is wrong:

1. Bulgaria converted in 864
2. Kievan Rus (modern Ukraine/Russia) converted in 988
3. Poland converted in the 960s
4. Hungary converted around 1000

By 1000, the only significant pagan areas were basically:

- Some Baltic tribes
- Parts of Finland
- Some scattered tribal areas



How do you even come to this conclusion when you basically did the Reddit equivalent of tripping, then saying "I meant to do that"???

I had a typo I meant to say europe wasn't fully non pagan till after 1000

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

I had a typo I meant to say europe wasn't fully non pagan till after 1000

Alright, so let me parse your galaxy-brain statement:

"Europe wasn't fully non pagan till after 1000"
= "Europe wasn't completely Christian till after 1000"
= "Some pagans existed somewhere in Europe after 1000"

So you've gone from:

1. "Europe was fully non pagan until after 1000" (completely wrong)
2. "Well some parts of Eastern Europe were pagan" (moving goalposts)
3. "I meant to say there were still some pagans after 1000" (complete reversal of original claim)

You've literally reversed your entire argument and claimed it was a "typo."

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

 

[Lovinglad]

Alright, so let me parse your galaxy-brain statement:

"Europe wasn't fully non pagan till after 1000"
= "Europe wasn't completely Christian till after 1000"
= "Some pagans existed somewhere in Europe after 1000"

So you've gone from:

1. "Europe was fully non pagan until after 1000" (completely wrong)
2. "Well some parts of Eastern Europe were pagan" (moving goalposts)
3. "I meant to say there were still some pagans after 1000" (complete reversal of original claim)

You've literally reversed your entire argument and claimed it was a "typo."

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Dude calm your knickers

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

Dude calm your knickers

Me dismantling your claims doesn't mean I'm not calm, silly goober.