Hypothesis YOU DONT HAVE A FREE WILL PROVEN WITH A SIMPLE SCENARIO

[sullyy]

This is a scenario I have created to explain determinism for my low iq parents who dont believe me that free will is an illusion


Imagine your brain as a complex function.
A system of inputs and thresholds not a will, but a machine that just only processes things that happen externally

Now youre on the street.
A stranger approaches fast aggressive eyes burning.
You feel a jolt of fear
You run


Did you choose to run?
No.
You were processed.


Let’s break this down

Your mind takes in stimuli visual, auditory, emotional and assigns weighted values based on past experience geneticspersonality and current state (hormones, energy level, mood).


Each stimulus becomes a numerical input into an internal threat-assessment system


Stimulus : Weight:

Opponents height: +20

Opponents muscular size: +25

Facial expression(rage): +15

Volume of voice(Shouting): +20

Past trauma memory triggered: +30

Youre tired or unarmed etc: +10



Total Threat Score: 120


Now your brain refers to predefined thresholds, hardcoded through evolution and personal conditioning:


≤ 60 Fight

≥ 60 Flee

Your score = 120 You flee

Not because you chose but because the number passed the threshold.
Your “decision” was just the system reaching a condition like in a scrypt of programming language Phyton

if threat_score >= 60:
flee()


You are not free.
You are like an if-statements and weighted sums

The Repeat Test: Proof in Simulation​

Lets say we repeat this event SOME times


Each time, the man looks slightly less dangerous:


Less height = −5
Softer voice = −10
No eye contact = −5

Soon after repeating it over and over and always subracting the nummer above , the total threat score drops: 50 as an example

there will inevitably be a precise tipping point where your response flips from “run” to “fight.”

Even if the difference from the previous moment was negligible, that minimal change is enough to alter the outcome.



Nothing you did changed.
Only the input changed and the output followed mechanically.

This is not decision making.
This is behavioral calculus.

Conclusion You Dont Choose You Compute​

Free will suggests an inner decider, a sovereign mind weighing options.
But in reality there is only


> Stimulus
> Processing
> Action

No soul deciding
Just neurons firing.


You didn't choose to run.

If the numbers had changed you would have fought.
If the memory had shifted you might have laughed.


But you didn’t decide.


You were computed.

YOUR WILL IS NOT FREE

 

[sullyy]

No one will read this golden thread sadly

since the attention span of the users on this forum is non existing

I just made this shit for myself tbh

 

[alacrity]

 

[HelvetAyegba]

You didn't actually prove determinism, though. You just assumed it from the start.

You start by saying the brain is basically a deterministic weighted algorithm, then you make up arbitrary values like "+20 height" and "+30 trauma" with a threshold of 60 and conclude the brain is deterministic. That's circular reasoning.

The "repeat test" doesn't prove anything either. Of course changing the inputs changes the output. That's true regardless of whether free will exists. It just shows that context influences decisions, which nobody disputes.

You're also only arguing against libertarian free will while acting like it's the only position. Compatibilism—the most common view among modern philosophers—is that your brain processing reasons and making a decision is what choosing is.

Even neuroscience doesn't support the conclusion you're making. The whole "Libet proved free will is fake" thing has been criticized for years, and review papers explicitly say neuroscience has not disproven free will.

So yeah, this isn't really a proof. It's just a deterministic model you made up and then showed behaves deterministically.

 

[junebug]

No one will read this golden thread sadly

since the attention span of the users on this forum is non existing

I just made this shit for myself tbh

I read it

 

[HelvetAyegba]

my source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31059730/

 

[DEAN 2.0]

This is a scenario I have created to explain determinism for my low iq parents who dont believe me that free will is an illusion


Imagine your brain as a complex function.
A system of inputs and thresholds not a will, but a machine that just only processes things that happen externally

Now youre on the street.
A stranger approaches fast aggressive eyes burning.
You feel a jolt of fear
You run


Did you choose to run?
No.
You were processed.


Let’s break this down

Your mind takes in stimuli visual, auditory, emotional and assigns weighted values based on past experience geneticspersonality and current state (hormones, energy level, mood).


Each stimulus becomes a numerical input into an internal threat-assessment system


Stimulus : Weight:

Opponents height: +20

Opponents muscular size: +25

Facial expression(rage): +15

Volume of voice(Shouting): +20

Past trauma memory triggered: +30

Youre tired or unarmed etc: +10



Total Threat Score: 120


Now your brain refers to predefined thresholds, hardcoded through evolution and personal conditioning:


≤ 60 Fight

≥ 60 Flee

Your score = 120 You flee

Not because you chose but because the number passed the threshold.
Your “decision” was just the system reaching a condition like in a scrypt of programming language Phyton

if threat_score >= 60:
flee()


You are not free.
You are like an if-statements and weighted sums

The Repeat Test: Proof in Simulation​

Lets say we repeat this event SOME times


Each time, the man looks slightly less dangerous:


Less height = −5
Softer voice = −10
No eye contact = −5

Soon after repeating it over and over and always subracting the nummer above , the total threat score drops: 50 as an example

there will inevitably be a precise tipping point where your response flips from “run” to “fight.”

Even if the difference from the previous moment was negligible, that minimal change is enough to alter the outcome.



Nothing you did changed.
Only the input changed and the output followed mechanically.

This is not decision making.
This is behavioral calculus.

Conclusion You Dont Choose You Compute​

Free will suggests an inner decider, a sovereign mind weighing options.
But in reality there is only


> Stimulus
> Processing
> Action

No soul deciding
Just neurons firing.


You didn't choose to run.

If the numbers had changed you would have fought.
If the memory had shifted you might have laughed.


But you didn’t decide.


You were computed.

YOUR WILL IS NOT FREE

Js say u run bc sum1 told you that if sum1 who looks scary headed towards u, u run

Therefore free will DOESNT exist bc sum1 told you what to do

 

[HelvetAyegba]

I read it

me too it did not make sense too me tho

 

[Sir Seal]

This is a scenario I have created to explain determinism for my low iq parents who dont believe me that free will is an illusion


Imagine your brain as a complex function.
A system of inputs and thresholds not a will, but a machine that just only processes things that happen externally

Now youre on the street.
A stranger approaches fast aggressive eyes burning.
You feel a jolt of fear
You run


Did you choose to run?
No.
You were processed.


Let’s break this down

Your mind takes in stimuli visual, auditory, emotional and assigns weighted values based on past experience geneticspersonality and current state (hormones, energy level, mood).


Each stimulus becomes a numerical input into an internal threat-assessment system


Stimulus : Weight:

Opponents height: +20

Opponents muscular size: +25

Facial expression(rage): +15

Volume of voice(Shouting): +20

Past trauma memory triggered: +30

Youre tired or unarmed etc: +10



Total Threat Score: 120


Now your brain refers to predefined thresholds, hardcoded through evolution and personal conditioning:


≤ 60 Fight

≥ 60 Flee

Your score = 120 You flee

Not because you chose but because the number passed the threshold.
Your “decision” was just the system reaching a condition like in a scrypt of programming language Phyton

if threat_score >= 60:
flee()


You are not free.
You are like an if-statements and weighted sums

The Repeat Test: Proof in Simulation​

Lets say we repeat this event SOME times


Each time, the man looks slightly less dangerous:


Less height = −5
Softer voice = −10
No eye contact = −5

Soon after repeating it over and over and always subracting the nummer above , the total threat score drops: 50 as an example

there will inevitably be a precise tipping point where your response flips from “run” to “fight.”

Even if the difference from the previous moment was negligible, that minimal change is enough to alter the outcome.



Nothing you did changed.
Only the input changed and the output followed mechanically.

This is not decision making.
This is behavioral calculus.

Conclusion You Dont Choose You Compute​

Free will suggests an inner decider, a sovereign mind weighing options.
But in reality there is only


> Stimulus
> Processing
> Action

No soul deciding
Just neurons firing.


You didn't choose to run.

If the numbers had changed you would have fought.
If the memory had shifted you might have laughed.


But you didn’t decide.


You were computed.

YOUR WILL IS NOT FREE

Ignoring everything else you made up (comparing complex biological processes to human-designed code, random ass values randomly decided, etc, etc), your chosen scenario is inherently flawed.

You described a 'fight or flight response'; this bypasses your brain to instead communicate with your spinal cord. This is because your body, filled with autonomous processes, detected the dangerous stimuli, a system trained via natural selection, socialisation, and numerous factors,
which decides whether you run or fight the threat. Your body is filled with adrenaline at this moment for this reason; adrenaline is overpowering you because it needs to be.
It is a system trained on keeping you alive. Yet there are so many less-overwhelming decisions that are influenced by other factors, like your gut microbiome encouraging your brain to eat unhealthy foods.

But if we don't have free will, why can we choose to deny those cravings? Why can we make decisions that combat our fears or anxieties? Why can we fight our bad habits?

 

[Sir Seal]

I read it

You should notice its flawed then

 

[Br4va]

Ik readinng dn

 

[HelvetAyegba]

You should notice its flawed then

I DID READ THIS

 

[yielded]

This is a scenario I have created to explain determinism for my low iq parents who dont believe me that free will is an illusion


Imagine your brain as a complex function.
A system of inputs and thresholds not a will, but a machine that just only processes things that happen externally

Now youre on the street.
A stranger approaches fast aggressive eyes burning.
You feel a jolt of fear
You run


Did you choose to run?
No.
You were processed.


Let’s break this down

Your mind takes in stimuli visual, auditory, emotional and assigns weighted values based on past experience geneticspersonality and current state (hormones, energy level, mood).


Each stimulus becomes a numerical input into an internal threat-assessment system


Stimulus : Weight:

Opponents height: +20

Opponents muscular size: +25

Facial expression(rage): +15

Volume of voice(Shouting): +20

Past trauma memory triggered: +30

Youre tired or unarmed etc: +10



Total Threat Score: 120


Now your brain refers to predefined thresholds, hardcoded through evolution and personal conditioning:


≤ 60 Fight

≥ 60 Flee

Your score = 120 You flee

Not because you chose but because the number passed the threshold.
Your “decision” was just the system reaching a condition like in a scrypt of programming language Phyton

if threat_score >= 60:
flee()


You are not free.
You are like an if-statements and weighted sums

The Repeat Test: Proof in Simulation​

Lets say we repeat this event SOME times


Each time, the man looks slightly less dangerous:


Less height = −5
Softer voice = −10
No eye contact = −5

Soon after repeating it over and over and always subracting the nummer above , the total threat score drops: 50 as an example

there will inevitably be a precise tipping point where your response flips from “run” to “fight.”

Even if the difference from the previous moment was negligible, that minimal change is enough to alter the outcome.



Nothing you did changed.
Only the input changed and the output followed mechanically.

This is not decision making.
This is behavioral calculus.

Conclusion You Dont Choose You Compute​

Free will suggests an inner decider, a sovereign mind weighing options.
But in reality there is only


> Stimulus
> Processing
> Action

No soul deciding
Just neurons firing.


You didn't choose to run.

If the numbers had changed you would have fought.
If the memory had shifted you might have laughed.


But you didn’t decide.


You were computed.

YOUR WILL IS NOT FREE

Water

 

[Sir Seal]

I DID READ THIS

My bad, meant to quote @junebug

 

[limo8]

This is a scenario I have created to explain determinism for my low iq parents who dont believe me that free will is an illusion


Imagine your brain as a complex function.
A system of inputs and thresholds not a will, but a machine that just only processes things that happen externally

Now youre on the street.
A stranger approaches fast aggressive eyes burning.
You feel a jolt of fear
You run


Did you choose to run?
No.
You were processed.


Let’s break this down

Your mind takes in stimuli visual, auditory, emotional and assigns weighted values based on past experience geneticspersonality and current state (hormones, energy level, mood).


Each stimulus becomes a numerical input into an internal threat-assessment system


Stimulus : Weight:

Opponents height: +20

Opponents muscular size: +25

Facial expression(rage): +15

Volume of voice(Shouting): +20

Past trauma memory triggered: +30

Youre tired or unarmed etc: +10



Total Threat Score: 120


Now your brain refers to predefined thresholds, hardcoded through evolution and personal conditioning:


≤ 60 Fight

≥ 60 Flee

Your score = 120 You flee

Not because you chose but because the number passed the threshold.
Your “decision” was just the system reaching a condition like in a scrypt of programming language Phyton

if threat_score >= 60:
flee()


You are not free.
You are like an if-statements and weighted sums

The Repeat Test: Proof in Simulation​

Lets say we repeat this event SOME times


Each time, the man looks slightly less dangerous:


Less height = −5
Softer voice = −10
No eye contact = −5

Soon after repeating it over and over and always subracting the nummer above , the total threat score drops: 50 as an example

there will inevitably be a precise tipping point where your response flips from “run” to “fight.”

Even if the difference from the previous moment was negligible, that minimal change is enough to alter the outcome.



Nothing you did changed.
Only the input changed and the output followed mechanically.

This is not decision making.
This is behavioral calculus.

Conclusion You Dont Choose You Compute​

Free will suggests an inner decider, a sovereign mind weighing options.
But in reality there is only


> Stimulus
> Processing
> Action

No soul deciding
Just neurons firing.


You didn't choose to run.

If the numbers had changed you would have fought.
If the memory had shifted you might have laughed.


But you didn’t decide.


You were computed.

YOUR WILL IS NOT FREE

chat gpt thread but ye there no free will choice or whatever else its all a post factum illusion body tells itself

 

[genio]

This is a scenario I have created to explain determinism for my low iq parents who dont believe me that free will is an illusion


Imagine your brain as a complex function.
A system of inputs and thresholds not a will, but a machine that just only processes things that happen externally

Now youre on the street.
A stranger approaches fast aggressive eyes burning.
You feel a jolt of fear
You run


Did you choose to run?
No.
You were processed.


Let’s break this down

Your mind takes in stimuli visual, auditory, emotional and assigns weighted values based on past experience geneticspersonality and current state (hormones, energy level, mood).


Each stimulus becomes a numerical input into an internal threat-assessment system


Stimulus : Weight:

Opponents height: +20

Opponents muscular size: +25

Facial expression(rage): +15

Volume of voice(Shouting): +20

Past trauma memory triggered: +30

Youre tired or unarmed etc: +10



Total Threat Score: 120


Now your brain refers to predefined thresholds, hardcoded through evolution and personal conditioning:


≤ 60 Fight

≥ 60 Flee

Your score = 120 You flee

Not because you chose but because the number passed the threshold.
Your “decision” was just the system reaching a condition like in a scrypt of programming language Phyton

if threat_score >= 60:
flee()


You are not free.
You are like an if-statements and weighted sums

The Repeat Test: Proof in Simulation​

Lets say we repeat this event SOME times


Each time, the man looks slightly less dangerous:


Less height = −5
Softer voice = −10
No eye contact = −5

Soon after repeating it over and over and always subracting the nummer above , the total threat score drops: 50 as an example

there will inevitably be a precise tipping point where your response flips from “run” to “fight.”

Even if the difference from the previous moment was negligible, that minimal change is enough to alter the outcome.



Nothing you did changed.
Only the input changed and the output followed mechanically.

This is not decision making.
This is behavioral calculus.

Conclusion You Dont Choose You Compute​

Free will suggests an inner decider, a sovereign mind weighing options.
But in reality there is only


> Stimulus
> Processing
> Action

No soul deciding
Just neurons firing.


You didn't choose to run.

If the numbers had changed you would have fought.
If the memory had shifted you might have laughed.


But you didn’t decide.


You were computed.

YOUR WILL IS NOT FREE

Water
Brain chemistry determined from birth

 

[HelvetAyegba]

My bad, meant to quote @junebug

its ok your mistake costs 1 gold rep tho

 

[HelvetAyegba]

@sullyy can you come and debate it would surely be interesting