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You are SO wrong about soy

Deleted Member 68000

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Myth: Soy, especially soy milk, causes feminisation and hormonal manipulation in men as well as hormonal imbalances in women.

Justification: Soy contains plant compunds that are called isoflavones. Since these mildly imitate the function of estrogen, they are called phytoestrogens.

Many people worry that the consumption of soy products such as Edamame, Tofu, Tempeh, Soy Milk, Miso / Natto or even Soy Protein Isolate can cause an increase in estrogen levels leading to


Gynecomastia (man boobs)
A bloated face
An overall more feminine appearance
A weaker jawline


I am going to debunk these claims one by one, then explain why you should even incorporate some more soy into your diet.


Gynecomastia (man boobs)

- There is no study out there backing the claim that moderate soy intake causes feminisation or less testosterone
- When consuming 2-3 servings of soy (equivalent to 80-120 mg isoflavones/day), testosterone stays the same
- Gynecomastia claims come from two separate reports where people consumed 12-14 servings of soy per day for MONTHS on end (around 560-840 mg isoflavones per day)


Bloated face

- This claim comes from the association soy = estrogen
- The isoflavones in soy are weak and selective, meaning they cannot flood your body with estrogen and cause bloating
- In fact, many soy foods are low in sodium and rich in potassium, reducing facial puffiness (see below)



A more feminine appearance

- This is a claim which originates from meme culture
- The „soy boy“ look consisting of a slouchy posture, a soft face and a skinny-fat build likely comes from a lack of lifting, poor nutrition and low protein intake
- Soy protein is in fact a complete protein with similar qualities to whey



A weaker jawline

- There is no evidence that soy may weaken bones structure, reduce androgenic features or lessen facial masculinity
- There are little to no hormonal shifts due to soy in healthy people, but if there are any in you, that’s likely a you problem
-> I would recommend seeing a doctor


Others: Isoflavones are not hormone disrupters. They simply are weak mimics of estrogen. They do not impact Thyroid function if you maintain a healthy iodine level. Soy acts protective for breast and prostate cancer.



For ideal aesthetics, you can consume 1-3 servings of soy in a day
(Think 1 cup of soy milk, 100 g tofu, etc etc)


Why soy is not evil:

Soy is low in sodium but high in protein and in potassium. It performs well when compared with other potassium sources and even is a relatively cheap way to access potassium.


Let’s compare:
Soy milk: 250-400 mg potassium (1 cup)
Coconut water: 600 mg potassium (1 cup)
Banana: 420-450 mg potassium (1 medium)
Avocado: 975 mg potassium (1 medium)


While soy milk can obviously not compete with stronger potassium rich foods like avocado or banana, it is a cheaper alternative to drinking coconut water all the time as prices for 1L soy milk vary between 1,5 and 2,5€ and 1L coconut water often costs 4€+.



Benefits of potassium:


1. Reduces water retention (bloating) through balancing sodium levels in the body -> promotes sodium flushing
2. Supports health through cell hydration for hydrated skin
3. Promotes muscle function through improving muscle contraction and nerve function-> benefit for workout performance and body aesthetics
4. Improves circulation through maintaining healthy blood pressure and vascular function, can support better oxygen and nutrient delivery to skin and hair


Benefits of soy:

- Improves elasticity and hydration of skin and may even reduce acne through mild DHT-blocking from the phytoestrogens
- Can reduce hair thinning via hormonal modulation (again, DHT-blocking, especially effective in DHT-sensitive people -> see my other thread for more information on DHT)
- Soy protein contains all 9 essential AAs, making it a full protein that supports the building and maintenance of lean muscle
- Low sodium forms can reduce bloating (Edamame, tofu, soy milk), this does not account for highly modified products such as soy protein powder
- Fermented soy improves your microbiome, which is crucial for gut health, visible in form of healthy skin, improved digestion, better mood
-> Products like soy milk also have low greenhouse gas emissions and consume very little water during production!!



Bottom line:
- Soy is a cheap source of protein and potassium which is also low in sodium
- For men, it may reduce DHT, potentially helping with acne or hair loss
- For women, it may support clearer skin and balanced hormones


Just like everything else, soy too should be consumed in moderation. There won’t be ANY problems with soy consumption AT ALL unless you consume INSANE amounts of soy (Think 10 blocks of tofu a day, which I doubt you consume unless you’re vegan, which would be a discussion of its own) for MONTHS on end. Please, for the love of god stop relying on „bp tiktok“ or meme culture for information and education.



SOY WILL NOT TURN YOU INTO A FEMBOY (sorry)




Sources:
Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy
NIH – National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (NCCIH)https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/soy
Journal of the American College of Nutrition (Meta-Analysis, 2021): https://doi.org/10.1080/07315724.2020.1812163
 
Last edited:
that’s just scientifically false - soy can’t cause higher levels of estrogen. isoflavones are NOT estrogen 😭
isoflavones are a kind of phytoestrogens which partially mimic the effects of estrogen itself
part of those effects are affecting lh levels negatively
 
just jug soy milk theory
 
Myth: Soy, especially soy milk, causes feminisation and hormonal manipulation in men as well as hormonal imbalances in women.

Justification: Soy contains plant compunds that are called isoflavones. Since these mildly imitate the function of estrogen, they are called phytoestrogens.

Many people worry that the consumption of soy products such as Edamame, Tofu, Tempeh, Soy Milk, Miso / Natto or even Soy Protein Isolate can cause an increase in estrogen levels leading to


Gynecomastia (man boobs)
A bloated face
An overall more feminine appearance
A weaker jawline


I am going to debunk these claims one by one, then explain why you should even incorporate some more soy into your diet.


Gynecomastia (man boobs)

- There is no study out there backing the claim that moderate soy intake causes feminisation or less testosterone
- When consuming 2-3 servings of soy (equivalent to 80-120 mg isoflavones/day), testosterone stays the same
- Gynecomastia claims come from two separate reports where people consumed 12-14 servings of soy per day for MONTHS on end (around 560-840 mg isoflavones per day)


Bloated face

- This claim comes from the association soy = estrogen
- The isoflavones in soy are weak and selective, meaning they cannot flood your body with estrogen and cause bloating
- In fact, many soy foods are low in sodium and rich in potassium, reducing facial puffiness (see below)



A more feminine appearance

- This is a claim which originates from meme culture
- The „soy boy“ look consisting of a slouchy posture, a soft face and a skinny-fat build likely comes from a lack of lifting, poor nutrition and low protein intake
- Soy protein is in fact a complete protein with similar qualities to whey



A weaker jawline

- There is no evidence that soy may weaken bones structure, reduce androgenic features or lessen facial masculinity
- There are little to no hormonal shifts due to soy in healthy people, but if there are any in you, that’s likely a you problem
-> I would recommend seeing a doctor


Others: Isoflavones are not hormone disrupters. They simply are weak mimics of estrogen. They do not impact Thyroid function if you maintain a healthy iodine level. Soy acts protective for breast and prostate cancer.



For ideal aesthetics, you can consume 1-3 servings of soy in a day
(Think 1 cup of soy milk, 100 g tofu, etc etc)


Why I recommend soy consumption:

Soy is low in sodium but high in protein and in potassium. It performs well when compared with other potassium sources and even is a relatively cheap way to access potassium.


Let’s compare:
Soy milk: 250-400 mg potassium (1 cup)
Coconut water: 600 mg potassium (1 cup)
Banana: 420-450 mg potassium (1 medium)
Avocado: 975 mg potassium (1 medium)


While soy milk can obviously not compete with stronger potassium rich foods like avocado or banana, it is a cheaper alternative to drinking coconut water all the time as prices for 1L soy milk vary between 1,5 and 2,5€ and 1L coconut water often costs 4€+.



Benefits of potassium:


1. Reduces water retention (bloating) through balancing sodium levels in the body -> promotes sodium flushing
2. Supports health through cell hydration for hydrated skin
3. Promotes muscle function through improving muscle contraction and nerve function-> benefit for workout performance and body aesthetics
4. Improves circulation through maintaining healthy blood pressure and vascular function, can support better oxygen and nutrient delivery to skin and hair


Benefits of soy:

- Improves elasticity and hydration of skin and may even reduce acne through mild DHT-blocking from the phytoestrogens
- Can reduce hair thinning via hormonal modulation (again, DHT-blocking, especially effective in DHT-sensitive people -> see my other thread for more information on DHT)
- Soy protein contains all 9 essential AAs, making it a full protein that supports the building and maintenance of lean muscle
- Low sodium forms can reduce bloating (Edamame, tofu, soy milk), this does not account for highly modified products such as soy protein powder
- Fermented soy improves your microbiome, which is crucial for gut health, visible in form of healthy skin, improved digestion, better mood
-> Products like soy milk also have low greenhouse gas emissions and consume very little water during production!!



Bottom line:
- Soy is a cheap source of protein and potassium which is also low in sodium
- For men, it may reduce DHT, potentially helping with acne or hair loss
- For women, it may support clearer skin and balanced hormones


Just like everything else, soy too should be consumed in moderation. There won’t be ANY problems with soy consumption AT ALL unless you consume INSANE amounts of soy (Think 10 blocks of tofu a day, which I doubt you consume unless you’re vegan, which would be a discussion of its own) for MONTHS on end. Please, for the love of god stop relying on „bp tiktok“ or meme culture for information and education.



SOY WILL NOT TURN YOU INTO A FEMBOY (sorry)




Sources:
Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy
NIH – National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (NCCIH)https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/soy
Journal of the American College of Nutrition (Meta-Analysis, 2021): https://doi.org/10.1080/07315724.2020.1812163
@NewFuckingDay jfl at this thread
 
Phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptors AND most of the time activate them
There's a reason why populations in Asia with high soy consumption look so feminine
 
Phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptors AND most of the time activate them
There's a reason why populations in Asia with high soy consumption look so feminine
yes and that reason is genetic, evolutionary and also culturally motivated. soy is not an evil superfood that can feminise men THAT much, especially not with that level of soy consumption (Asians still don’t eat 10 blocks of tofu a day)
 
yes and that reason is genetic, evolutionary and also culturally motivated. soy is not an evil superfood that can feminise men THAT much, especially not with that level of soy consumption (Asians still don’t eat 10 blocks of tofu a day)
No such thing as "genetic" it's an epigenetic adaptation, generations of soy consumption made them small framed and feminine
Sure , consuming soy in moderate amounts won't make you a femboy. But it will interfere with optimal hormonal lvls
Soy has poorly available protein since it's plant protein and it looks very unappealing
Thanks , I'll stick to my raw heart
 
No such thing as "genetic" it's an epigenetic adaptation, generations of soy consumption made them small framed and feminine
Sure , consuming soy in moderate amounts won't make you a femboy. But it will interfere with optimal hormonal lvls
Soy has poorly available protein since it's plant protein and it looks very unappealing
Thanks , I'll stick to my raw heart
okay i will let you do your thing no problem i avoid soy too actually i just like discussions
 
isoflavones mimic estrogen

isoflavones affect lh levels
valid source which i read too just unfortunately the first one that pops up on google. i respect your claims and i won’t insist on convincing you otherwise im not the soy police
 
valid source which i read too just unfortunately the first one that pops up on google. i respect your claims and i won’t insist on convincing you otherwise im not the soy police
jfl the only thing people would want to force you to think is that estrogen is good not the contrary
 
im still right 🙄🙄 but i understand that this is a hard topic to discuss on here so everyone else has the right to be right too and i respect every claim made ❤️
its not like you respect other claims there is a truth and a false reality and in this case you didnt bring anything but yappery to back up your claims
 
its not like you respect other claims there is a truth and a false reality and in this case you didnt bring anything but yappery to back up your claims
i have 3 sources linked which are not the first google results that pops up when you search up „soy bad“ or smth. you are arguing for a standpoint made by incels and i am arguing for one made by science. i will not force you to understand my point if you choose to not be open minded to having your mind changed. even your source does not fully back your claim
 
i have 3 sources linked which are not the first google results that pops up when you search up „soy bad“ or smth. you are arguing for a standpoint made by incels and i am arguing for one made by science. i will not force you to understand my point if you choose to not be open minded to having your mind changed. even your source does not fully back your claim
i am open minded but i simply do not understand what relevance does the fact that the sources i bringed up are "the ones that pop up first" because they are trusted sources

also luzia nobody really cares enough to believe blindly that soy is bad if there wouldnt be any proof that says the contrary
 
its not like you respect other claims there is a truth and a false reality and in this case you didnt bring anything but yappery to back up your claims
your source rather backs my thread as it literally says that soy isoflavones, are phytoestrogens that can bind to estrogen receptors (er alpha and er beta) in the body due to their structural similarity to estrogen. this means that depending on the tissue and existing hormone levels they may exert weak estrogen like effects or block stronger natural estrogens meaning they LITERALLY are either antagonists or mild agonists which is exactly what i said in the thread
 
i am open minded but i simply do not understand what relevance does the fact that the sources i bringed up are "the ones that pop up first" because they are trusted sources

also luzia nobody really cares enough to believe blindly that soy is bad if there wouldnt be any proof that says the contrary
i have three sources listed and it would take one good reading of your own to find proof for my point of view. also dont claim my research as „yappery“ just because you want to be right
 
there’s little to no reason to demonise it either
i personally beleive if its in your food every now and then its not that deep but if ur just chugging soy milk (esp as a male) it can cause issues
 
theres no way n*****s purposely eat soy
Reading the science it looks like soy comsumption is only beneficial long-term for women

 
Reading the science it looks like soy comsumption is only beneficial long-term for women

my sister drinks soy milk and i used to annoy her about it, i guess ill stop lol
 
your source rather backs my thread as it literally says that soy isoflavones, are phytoestrogens that can bind to estrogen receptors (er alpha and er beta) in the body due to their structural similarity to estrogen. this means that depending on the tissue and existing hormone levels they may exert weak estrogen like effects or block stronger natural estrogens meaning they LITERALLY are either antagonists or mild agonists which is exactly what i said in the thread
luzia you did not disapprove anything i said

isoflavones can indeed either mimic estrogen's effects negatevely or block its effects
but their agonist activity is still enough to have the same negative effects on lh
 
luzia you did not disapprove anything i said

isoflavones can indeed either mimic estrogen's effects negatevely or block its effects
but their agonist activity is still enough to have the same negative effects on lh
stop writing my name in every response ts turns me on
 
Reading the science it looks like soy comsumption is only beneficial long-term for women

see @luzia you can drink as much soy milk as you want it doesnt affect you in any way
 
Reading the science it looks like soy comsumption is only beneficial long-term for women

i didnt come across this paper previously, thank you for adding! i will read through it more throughly but i already see your point
 
wow ok sorry
okay let’s leave on a neutral note and say my thread is valid but your point is equally valid and i did not take it into consideration enough so i will do some more research and edit the thread later on with the reminders and information you and others gave in replies?
 

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